Car free day - What car free day?

[Erith]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

"I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas"

The Luas! Of course, why didn't I think of that. Possiby because the closest stop is about an hour away. Any other bright ideas? Maybe I should have just had more money and bought a nice place in Dundrum.

 

[RainyDay]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Unless you've been living in outer Mongolia for the last 10 years, you will know that the majority of people buying homes now can not afford to pick and choose where they want to live and 'take into account' the transport options - most people now have to move further away from where they would like to live (and where they work) so not everyone can pop onto the Luas with their children in the morning, what a luxury....

It's not a question of luxuries. I've seen people choose Edenderry or Edgeworthstown and a 90-120 minute each way commute because they don't like the houses that they can afford in Dublin. So choices are being made - prioritising image and 'what mummy might say' over family time. I've seen people refuse to consider working away from Dublin solely out a fear that they might miss out on a promotion. Again, choices, choices, choices.

"I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas"

The Luas! Of course, why didn't I think of that. Possiby because the closest stop is about an hour away. Any other bright ideas? Maybe I should have just had more money and bought a nice place in Dundrum.

Have you heard of [broken link removed]?

 

[golden mean]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

I have lived in a city where they had a real car free day every year- Brussels. Police checkpoints to stop you driving, you need to apply in advance to your local commune for a permit if you absolutely have to drive on that day. There are taxis of course. The whole of the central area is involved- the Dublin equivalent would be everything inside the M50.

In Brussels they always have it on a Sunday, because even they realise that people cannot get to work without cars and businesses would not stand for it if their customers could not travel to them. No one cares if you can't get out on your Sunday apparently- can't visit granny in the old folks home, can't take your kids out (Bamhan I am with you- buggies into old fashioned trams will not go). I took mine out for a walk and could not cross the road because of all the cyclists breaking the red light.

I am firmly with the sceptics on this one. Lets invest our energy and money in providing a usable alternative (buses that run on time, transferable tickets, and the rest) and not into these PC projects that make normal people feel like THEY are somehow the problem!

 

[contemporary]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.

they need to take their pocket into account first....

 

[Bamhan]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Rubbish - I see many parents doing the school/creche run on the Luas. I see one Dad taking his secondary school daughter on his moped regularly. I've see one father herding 2 kids on bikes through Dublin 6 recently. There are alternatives - don't use kids as an excuse.

And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.

There is NO public transport where I chose to live which is a rural location. Kids are not an excuse, I make no apologies for using my car.
I took transport options into account when chosing to live in a rural location and decided I would be happy to use my car when I needed to.

 

[Glenbhoy]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

I see one Dad taking his secondary school daughter on his moped regularly.
And don't blame the location either - People need to take transport options into account when choosing work/home locations.

Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.
Secondly, I agree people should take transport options into consideration when choosing a place to live/work - however, you have to admit that since Ireland lacks an integrated public transport network for many people, the only realistic choice they have is to drive.

 

[bogwarrior]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.
Secondly, I agree people should take transport options into consideration when choosing a place to live/work - however, you have to admit that since Ireland lacks an integrated public transport network for many people, the only realistic choice they have is to drive.

your 2 points kind of contradict each other. If the only realistic option for the individual in question is to bring the kid on his moped what choice does he have (assuming its legal to carry a passenger on a moped)?
I know people who think carrying a kid in a Hyandui is irresponsible......

 

[TarfHead]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.

I remember, last year, seeing an adult driving a moped towards the local national school. A small child was standing on the footplate in front of him and an older child (though probably under 12) was sitting on pillion wearing an adult helmet. Both the driver and the small child were bare headed.

They were travelling slowly and it may have been a first day of school treat but ..

 

[Bamhan]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Probably a way of teaching the kid not to be scared at school, beacue if he/she could survive that trip then school was a walk in the park!

 

[nelly]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Hey it is a great notion but never organised at all and therefore always going to be a failure.
I did buy in a cheaper area of the city (top €€ of i could afford) mainly because it was on the bus line and i thought if the worst got to the worst i could give up the car. I have not gotten it for work - too flippin awkward, but i do use the bus and my backpack to go shopping in town to avoid parking charges.

if they rowed back and tried it on a Sunday it woud be far better and might entice people to consider it.

 

[Cahir]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

I wasn't even aware that there was a car free day last Friday!!

 

[RainyDay]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

There is NO public transport where I chose to live which is a rural location. Kids are not an excuse, I make no apologies for using my car.
I took transport options into account when chosing to live in a rural location and decided I would be happy to use my car when I needed to.

It's nice to know that you're happy about using your car. However, your happiness is not the only issue. Your impact on the rest of the inhabitants of this planet is also an issue.

Firstly, any father taking a daughter to school on his moped is being grossly irresponsible in my opinion.

Why? I have to admit that the first concern that came to my mind was bullying/slagging, given that the girl was wearing the uniform of a fairly snooty private school where half the sixth years seem to drive their own cars to school.

Secondly, I agree people should take transport options into consideration when choosing a place to live/work - however, you have to admit that since Ireland lacks an integrated public transport network for many people, the only realistic choice they have is to drive.

I admit for for many people, the car is the only realistic option. I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?

 

[lmd]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

I admit for for many people, the car is the only realistic option. I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?

You're going round in circles RainyDay - we've established that the public transport system in this country is rubbish so just give it up will ya

 

[bazermc]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

I wasn't even aware that there was a car free day last Friday!!

Thanks, back to my original point - What car free day?

 

[Glenbhoy]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

Why? I have to admit that the first concern that came to my mind was bullying/slagging, given that the girl was wearing the uniform of a fairly snooty private school where half the sixth years seem to drive their own cars to school.
I admit for for many people, the car is the only realistic option. I also see many cases where people choose the single-occupant car commute over realistic public transport options?

The slagging thought struck me too!!
You are right too in that many people do take the car when they don't have too, I can't understand it myself, as I use the bus for catching up on my reading/sleep!

 

[RainyDay]

Re: Car free day - What car free day????

we've established that the public transport system in this country is rubbish

Exactly what 'we' are you referring to here, and where/when did 'we' establish this?

 

[Purple]

I have no option but to use a car. My commute into work is 30 minutes in a car. Public transport would take over 2 hours. The trip home would be 35 minutes in a car and 1 hour and 45 minutes on the bus. Yes I have tried it.
On a bike it takes 40 minutes in and 50 minutes home (up hill). I did this for 4 years and would continue to do so except that I need my car for work during the day. I don’t accept that cycling is any more dangerous now than it was 5 or 10 years ago and yes, I still cycle around Dublin city centre.
More and better roads would do more to reduce pollution from cars than any number of gimmicks like no car day. It’s just another ball of smoke.
Holding up the odd person who is lucky enough to be able to use public transport to drop off their kids before work as an example for the rest of us to follow is spurious. The reality is that most people who use their car have no real alternative.
The reality is that many poor areas are very badly served by public transport and this is a major factor in social exclusion and ghettoisation. The LUAS red line is a notable exception but it is a drop in the ocean. We should not just look at public transport as a way of ferrying middle income suburbanites to and from work, we should look at it as an essential way of promoting social cohesion. For example, how long does it take an 18 year old from Coolock get to UCD on a bus? Tallaght is the same size as Limerick city so even the red line is no good for most of the people who live there. Where are the secure areas to lock a bicycle at the LUAS park and ride facilities? Where are the same areas at park and ride facilities on QBC’s? Most of the recent investment in our public transport infrastructure is designed to help people with cars get around the place easier. Environmental issues are important but they should not be considered to the exclusion of the wider social function that public transport is supposed to serve.

 

[RainyDay]

The claim that you and others have 'no option' or 'no alternative' but to commute by car is predicated on the assumption that live at A and work at B. My point is that these are not 'givens' - you have the option of changing your home or work location over time. Obviously, these would be major changes and not done lightly, but they can indeed be changed over time. I'm simply putting out the fairly basic idea that we to consider our commute/transport options when choosing our home and work locations, rather than expecting public funds to fix any commuting problem at a later stage.

I don't at all accept that more/better road will reduce pollution or commute times. History shows us that every road that we build gets quickly clogged up. Neither do I accept that it is hugely important for the state to provide a bus service from Coolock to UCD, if (and I'm making an assumption here) they provide a decent regular service from Coolock to DCU. Many of the Luas stations that I've seen do indeed have bike locking areas.

Our first priority should be more public transport. We should have more buses on the streets as soon as they can be shipped in. We need to join up the Luas lines and build the planned Metro links.

 

[Purple]

The claim that you and others have 'no option' or 'no alternative' but to commute by car is predicated on the assumption that live at A and work at B. My point is that these are not 'givens' - you have the option of changing your home or work location over time. Obviously, these would be major changes and not done lightly, but they can indeed be changed over time. I'm simply putting out the fairly basic idea that we to consider our commute/transport options when choosing our home and work locations, rather than expecting public funds to fix any commuting problem at a later stage.

Yes, we can all work where we live or live where we work but it’s not a realistic solution. Why should people not expect their taxes to be spent on things that make their lives better, like better roads?

Neither do I accept that it is hugely important for the state to provide a bus service from Coolock to UCD, if (and I'm making an assumption here) they provide a decent regular service from Coolock to DCU.

I was making the general point that public transport has a social function as well as an environmental one and this can be lost in the “car bad – Bus good” simplistic arguments that feature in the media. I am surprised that you did not realise that.

Our first priority should be more public transport. We should have more buses on the streets as soon as they can be shipped in. We need to join up the Luas lines and build the planned Metro links.

I agree but this can and should be as well as, not instead of, road building. The reality is that most people need their cars (in as much as anyone needs anything other than food and basic shelter) and it is not unreasonable to expect a booming economy to be able to finance good road infrastructure.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Sorry Purple, gotta admit I agree with RainyDay here. The roads are not the issue (at least not in our cities and surrounding areas). The money should be put into better public transport as the public transport in Ireland (especially in the cities) is shocking. Compare Dublin to any large city around the world and it fares poorly. Paris, London, Rome et al all have proper integrated public transport systems where you can hop on one metro or whatever, switch over to another half way to your destination and be able to cross the city easily without having to walk half of it. This is what we should be aiming for - and that means aiming for integrating the LUAS trains and putting a metro into Dublin - I can't speak for the other cities but I'd imagine they qould require something similar.
If we had this then the next obvious step (or perhaps in conjunction with putting these in place) would be park and ride facilities at the edges of the city to facilitate people who need to drive to the city.