Departing tenant seeking rent refund as last rent review done by text!

[DannyBoyD]

suggested a rental increase. Hence the going to Threshold.

Do I have this right:

1. You increased the rent 2 years ago, not taking into account the RPZ & not using the correct procedures.

2. Then more recently you proposed another rent increase, again ignoring RPZ / procedures.

3. Tenant looks for refund of overpaid rent from two years back.

 

[Ailinf]

OK. I got the impression from your first post that they were leaving anyway. It seems you may have inflamed the issue by suggesting a rent increase and I presume the they're not gong anywhere now.

The suggested increase got them talking to threshold, who subsequently advised them to go after the invalid notice of rent increase.

Have you reregistered each year since?

yes.

 

[Ailinf]

Do I have this right:

1. You increased the rent 2 years ago, not taking into account the RPZ & not using the correct procedures.

2. Then more recently you proposed another rent increase, again ignoring RPZ / procedures.

3. Tenant looks for refund of overpaid rent from two years back.

1. 2.5 years ago- was not aware the area had been added to the RPZ. The only incorrect part was a text was sent instead of letter - all other parts were followed.
2. I suggested a rent increase for 6 months time - this would be 3 years since the last increase. I had a good relationship with them so would not hit them with a rent increase notice without flagging it with them first.
3. Here lies the dispute. They believe it's overpaid, I believe they had very reasonable rent for a very long time and they are using an innocent procedural mistake to get money out of me before they move on. And it's looking like they will!

 

[DannyBoyD]

advised them to go after the invalid notice of rent increase

Give them their money back.

And then either take steps to get your property back to market rent or sell it.

 

[DannyBoyD]

The only incorrect part was a text was sent instead of letter

No it wasnt. There's a procedure to be followed & you didn't do that.

And your tenant is now cheerfully exploiting your lack of knowledge.

I personally don't think you'll get anywhere with RTB.

If they are leaving anyway, I'd thank your lucky stars & sell.

 

[Bronte]

I would certainly not give in here, no matter what the law says.

The RTB starts with a mediation process and they might see the injustice of it and persuade the tenant to not pursue it.

I very much doubt that when it goes to adjudication that you will get a heavy fine.

I don't think I would pay for legal advice. They will just charge you for telling you what you have already learned here.

Brendan

The OP is in the wrong and there is no point pursing this by contesting it with the RTB. The mediation process is going to suggest the landlord repay all excess rent, it's all they can do. Even if they suggest a compromise, the tenants don't have to accept it, and why would they, they know the landlord didn't follow the procedures so they have him over a barrel.

As for adjudication, why would the landlord want the potential possibility of a fine. Which might, or might not be large.

 

[Bronte]

The tenant told me.
Yes, I do feel like complaining Threshold. I don't think they should be encouraging tenants to claim money out of landlords due to a procedural error where the landlord has been more than fair. In fact, this situation is going to put big financial stress on me.

Sorry to tell you but complaining to Threshold is laughable. What would that achieve. Their job is to help the poor badly treated tenants against the mean bad wealthy landlords.

Also I don't get the financial stress, aren't you selling, and we are talking less than 4K. Something not making sense to me as the thread developes.

 

[Ailinf]

Sorry to tell you but complaining to Threshold is laughable. What would that achieve. Their job is to help the poor badly treated tenants against the mean bad wealthy landlords.

Also I don't get the financial stress, aren't you selling, and we are talking less than 4K. Something not making sense to me as the thread developes.

I agree re complaining Threshold - it will be pointless for sure, but I feel strongly about it so it will rest easier with me if I make my feelings known.
And maybe €4000 is not a lot of money to some, but it is to me.

Thanks to all for all the great advice.
I have just looked into the RTB dispute process - and invalid notice of rent review is on the list of dispute types. I partly guessed they knew they were onto a winner.
Case closed I'm afraid.
Thanks again.

 

[Ailinf]

4K doesn’t seem a lot in the context of rents these days and you can offset it against future rental profits it seems so depending on marginal rate you’ll get some of it back. I’ve no idea of course if you still have a large mortgage on the property etc. You mention making a loss on the property so I’m guessing you mean a loss v the repayments, capital as well as interest.
But it is a PITA having to find it when you are also re-advertising the place for rent and maybe having expenses in terms of cleaning and decorating post your current tenants. Gonna be an expensive time for you but hopefully you’ll be back on track soon.

Thank you Annieindublin. Still have a large mortgage and just out of negative equity. I will be selling - the RPZ has made sure of that - I am loosing monthly - and there's no way practical way around increasing the rent to anywhere near market value (rent is currently below 1000 in an area that is getting 1,800 -fool me!!) Major refurb - not an option really, BER currently at C2 or leave vacant for 2 years?? Only option is to sell I think.

 

[Annieindublin]

At least if you are out of negative equity you can clear the mortgage and end the stress

 

[Silversurfer]

Thank you Annieindublin. Still have a large mortgage and just out of negative equity. I will be selling - the RPZ has made sure of that - I am loosing monthly - and there's no way practical way around increasing the rent to anywhere near market value (rent is currently below 1000 in an area that is getting 1,800 -fool me!!) Major refurb - not an option really, BER currently at C2 or leave vacant for 2 years?? Only option is to sell I think.

It is possible for you to contest this. The worse that can happen is you lose. Your tenants will become famous. Serve notice on them. Refuse a reference. It is a business not a charity. Advertise for a Ukrainian looking for a home under the ARP. It is €800 tax free and outside the scope of RTB. After two years rent again at market value.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

It is possible for you to contest this. The worse that can happen is you lose. Your tenants will become famous. Serve notice on them.

I agree with this. I don't see any downside in contesting it.

They will probably win but I can't see you being fined.

Brendan

 

[Sarenco]

I don't see any downside in contesting it.

Well, the RTB could impose a sanction of up to €15,000 for breaching the RPZ requirements.

I think that’s unlikely but it’s certainly possible.

 

[T McGibney]

Well, the RTB could impose a sanction of up to €15,000 for breaching the RPZ requirements.

I think that’s unlikely but it’s certainly possible.

When you enter into any contentious adversarial process, it's important to establish the limits of what might happen.

That's why I suggested earlier, only slightly facetiously:

1. Get legal advice.
2. Put the property up for sale.

 

[Sarenco]

That's why I suggested earlier, only slightly facetiously:

Hmmm.

You previously told us that you suggested getting legal advice to argue for the application of some time limit that isn’t set out in the legislation.

There probably is, albeit unacknowledged by the RTB/legislation.

That's why I suggested you get legal advice.

Anyway, I don’t see any point in getting legal advice in this case.

 

[T McGibney]

Hmmm.

You previously told us that you suggested getting legal advice to argue for the application of some time limit that isn’t set out in the legislation.

Anyway, I don’t see any point in getting legal advice in this case.

Sorry, I'm not reigniting yesterday's argument all over again.

 

[Silversurfer]

Well, the RTB could impose a sanction of up to €15,000 for breaching the RPZ requirements.

I think that’s unlikely but it’s certainly possible.

Reading the determination orders from the RTB doesn’t seem to suggest any fines being given. I have only read 2023/3024.

 

[llgon]

Advertise for a Ukrainian looking for a home under the ARP. It is €800 tax free and outside the scope of RTB. After two years rent again at market value

The ARP is due to end in March 2025. It may not but it is notable that the government have been cutting supports to Ukrainians in recent months.

Other supports are likely to be provided instead but may be back in the scope of the RTB.

Accommodation Recognition Payment Scheme: Your questions answered

www.gov.ie

 

[DannyBoyD]

To underline the point that you are unlikely to win RTB case in this instance. Tenant was advertising the flat on booking.com & even had the property owner replace mattresses when "guests" complained about beds.

Landlord ordered to pay back rent and deposit to tenant subletting out apartment

Residential Tenancies Board says landlord should have issued warning notice to terminate the tenancy

www.irishtimes.com

Extract:
"A landlord who changed the locks of a Dublin 4 apartment after discovering her tenant was subletting it on an accommodation booking website was ordered to return rent paid and a €2,300 deposit by a Residential Tenancies Board tribunal last month.

The landlord explained how she encountered a cleaner entering the property on South Lotts Road “carrying lots of sheets and towels” in December, who informed her that she was preparing the property for the “next guest”.

During the hearing, the tenant repeatedly denied subletting the apartment noting that the property was advertised by someone with a different name."

"The tenant was seeking damages of €5,000, arguing that he was illegally evicted, alongside the return of his deposit and 10 days rent which he had paid until the end of December.

Noting the landlord’s “comprehensive evidence”, the tribunal was satisfied that the tenant did, in fact, sublet the property.

Although the tribunal found the tenant to be in breach of his obligations, the landlord should have issued a warning notice and the termination of the tenancy was therefore invalid, it said."

 

[Ailinf]

That is crazy!! Yes, no point in taking this further. I have informed tenant I will pay him what he is looking for. Thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated.