We had been asked to order a copy of our loan file from our provider, under the data protection act. After a very long period of time waiting, we finally received it. From first glance, there are discrepancies in both our salaries, which seemed to have been grossly exaggerated. We would never have been sold this mortgage if it wasn't for whoever inflated our salaries. We are fully aware we accepted the loan but in time our punishment will be to lose our home. What will the punishment be of those that deliberatly lied about our financial status to get the mortgage through the system?
Inflated Salaries On Mortgage File. Will Mortgage Provider Be Brought To Task?
- Thread starter Alwyn
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Honestly, totally unaware of this. No P60 or bank statements were required. Three payslips from both of us were the order of the day and that was pretty much it. The loan application was sent to our solicitor with the value of the mortgage we were signing up to and no more. No mention of salaries were on any part of our agreement.
Brendan Burgess
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Who inflated the salaries?
Did you use a broker? Was it he who inflated them?
As Peteb says, you must have signed an application form. If you signed an application form which showed combined salaries of €50k and the bank changed it to €100k on their documentation "to get the loan through", then you may have a case.
But if you signed an application form with the incorrect salaries, you have no case.
As an employer, I had to provide employees with letters setting out their salaries. And the banks always rang to check if the data on the letter was correct or to clarify some point about the bonus system or salary scales.
The application form and the letter should be on file.
Was it a mainstream bank or a sub-prime lender?
Brendan Burgess
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But are you not implying now that you should never have bought this home in the first place because you couldn't have afforded it?
The services of a broker was used. The broker is no longer in business.
We are unsure if broker or provider inflated salaries.
Peteb, my apologies I misread your post. Yes we did sign an application form with the correct salaries stated. When we received a copy of our file we noted that somebody had crossed out our salaries and replaced them with much larger figures. Of course this would be difficult to prove that it was neither of us who made these changes. We were totally unaware of these changes until now.
We are unsure if broker or provider inflated salaries.
Peteb, my apologies I misread your post. Yes we did sign an application form with the correct salaries stated. When we received a copy of our file we noted that somebody had crossed out our salaries and replaced them with much larger figures. Of course this would be difficult to prove that it was neither of us who made these changes. We were totally unaware of these changes until now.
We were both self employed and felt certain that our income could only increase. We could afford the payments at the time but when the business took a turn for the worst in the midst of the downturn we were only able to meet interest only payments.
Are you able to contact the broker and at least ask the Question?
If the figures were crossed and amended, someone should at least have initialed the changes. Usually then, new documentation is sent out by the bank for new signatures.
Just my opinion, but if the broker changed the figures and the bank accepted this with no due diligence, no follow up, I think it is somewhat their fault.
If the figures were crossed and amended, someone should at least have initialed the changes. Usually then, new documentation is sent out by the bank for new signatures.
Just my opinion, but if the broker changed the figures and the bank accepted this with no due diligence, no follow up, I think it is somewhat their fault.
The least you should do here is to submit a formal compalint to the Bank on the salary changes. It would be difficult to prove that there was any loss to you as a result of this action. I.e. you applied for and were granted a level of mortgage. However, there may be some case to be made now for allowing you additional leeway on your current position, if there was an acceptance that information leading to loan agreement was amended without your knowledge or approval.
I am reading this with interest, something happened to me when i applied for a mortage in 2006.. funnily enough my mortgage was "changed" too before i drew it down. I actually requested 266 of a mortgage ( way under what i knew i could actually get) and the mortgage that i recieved was 281!! I found out this when I was doing my paperwork with my solicitor, no idea where that figure came from.. i paid my 10% deposit etc. When i pointed it out the solicitor told me that to change the mortgage at that stage would be more trouble then it was worth!!.. I had gone through a broker too.. I agreed to leave it as it was and use the extra to furnish the house.. I did know what i was doing and was happy to agree to it..but its quite interesting isnt it? The banks were literally throwing money at people regardless if they asked for it or not!!!
Thank you all for taking the time to reply.
First things first, we are not looking to worm our way out of our contract with the bank, contrary to the exaggerated application, we did accept the mortgage and take responsibility. The reason I started this thread was to highlight the issue and also to bring it to the attention of others who maybe in a more depolrible financial postion than what we have found ourselves in and this maybe due to no fault of their own.
First things first, we are not looking to worm our way out of our contract with the bank, contrary to the exaggerated application, we did accept the mortgage and take responsibility. The reason I started this thread was to highlight the issue and also to bring it to the attention of others who maybe in a more depolrible financial postion than what we have found ourselves in and this maybe due to no fault of their own.
The broker is no longer in business but yes we were able to make contact with him. He denied all wrong doing and advised us to drop the situation for our own sake and to negotiate with the bank as best we can.
To be fair to him he spoke to us at lenght and devulged one or two stories which leads me to believe it was not only us that similar has happened too.
Well I think that's a little suspicious. OK, more than a little.
The next step is to make a formal complaint to the bank.
None of this story is news. During the boom any old salary slip, hyped up self employed income, false P60's etc were all the rage. So it would seem many mortgage applications forms were inflated and a complete culture by the banks of not checking them was practised.
So how does it help the OP that the form is incorrect. Broker will never admit he changed figures. What would you sue the broker for in any case, the fact that you got a larger mortgage than you ought to have? Sue for the fact that you cannot now repay it.
What if it was a bank clerk than modified the form, that person too will never admit they did it and even if they did could you sue them/the bank. What is the actual wrongdoing. Does changing the figures on a mortgage application form mean that you can get out of your mortgage which is the ultimate aim of this scenario. I wouldn't have thought so.
At the end of the day, you signed the legal documents to take a certain sum of money at a certain mortgage interest rate. Your rights were explained to you by your solicitor and you agreed to the loan and signed for it. Presumably you knew what you were taking on and were happy that you could make the repayments.
I understand that you are trying to sort out your financial affairs, but cannot see how this will help you, the fact the form was modified. Because after that modification you signed for and took and began repayments on the mortgage.
So how does it help the OP that the form is incorrect. Broker will never admit he changed figures. What would you sue the broker for in any case, the fact that you got a larger mortgage than you ought to have? Sue for the fact that you cannot now repay it.
What if it was a bank clerk than modified the form, that person too will never admit they did it and even if they did could you sue them/the bank. What is the actual wrongdoing. Does changing the figures on a mortgage application form mean that you can get out of your mortgage which is the ultimate aim of this scenario. I wouldn't have thought so.
At the end of the day, you signed the legal documents to take a certain sum of money at a certain mortgage interest rate. Your rights were explained to you by your solicitor and you agreed to the loan and signed for it. Presumably you knew what you were taking on and were happy that you could make the repayments.
I understand that you are trying to sort out your financial affairs, but cannot see how this will help you, the fact the form was modified. Because after that modification you signed for and took and began repayments on the mortgage.
Loan application signatures are not officially witnessed, the loan offer/acceptance is signed with a solicitor so at that stage you know what you are getting.
I worked in lending for many years and we always were very careful with salary info, double checking that the payslips matched the p60 and the salary certificate from employer and querying discrepancies. However I know not all places were the same and a lot of the problems arose where loans came through third parties.
I have to say though it would not be uncommon for the figures on an application form to be amended, not always upwards, but before submitting application to underwriting dept when checking salary info it might have been worked out incorrectly, too much overtime allowed or not enough for example so correction would be made. It still had to be checked again and approved by underwriters.
I worked in lending for many years and we always were very careful with salary info, double checking that the payslips matched the p60 and the salary certificate from employer and querying discrepancies. However I know not all places were the same and a lot of the problems arose where loans came through third parties.
I have to say though it would not be uncommon for the figures on an application form to be amended, not always upwards, but before submitting application to underwriting dept when checking salary info it might have been worked out incorrectly, too much overtime allowed or not enough for example so correction would be made. It still had to be checked again and approved by underwriters.
SURELY the broker should have been keeping a closer eye on his buisness Having worked in this sector for many years we always operated a check list which was constantly referred to One of the basics was to get the loan amount correct from initial application to drawdown !! The application form itself is not a legal document IIts merely for information gathering purposes The fact that is was changed along the way COULD be due to a change in underwriting criteria operated by the bank which in turn were a matter of policy for each lender I am not commenting on the wrongs & rights of what went on but the total lack of regulation is glaringly obvious