Should it be against the law to smoke in a car in which children are present? 5/2008

[Caveat]

Re: Smoking in the car with Children

Niallers, have you had a look at the Allen Carr thread?

 

[ney001]

Re: Smoking in the car with Children

When you are addicted to cigarettes your free will is removed!!
you cannot give them up even if you wanted to as you are addicted for life.

As an experiment, try to give them up for 24 hours. you will be gone round the bend looking for your fix after 8 hours.

This is a cop-out, the human body is capable of many things and giving up addiction is just one of them.

 

[Purple]

Re: Smoking in the car with Children

This is a cop-out, the human body is capable of many things and giving up addiction is just one of them.

If people don't want to give up that's their own business. The problem is when they smoke in an enclosed small space with children present.

 

[truthseeker]

Re: Smoking in the car with Children

Niallers,
I AM a smoker (see the Allen Carr thread), as a smoker I think that people should not smoke in a car with children or expose them to secondhand smoke at home - if I wish to indulge my own addiction and there are kids in the house I go outside.

But as far as this thread goes - I dont think criminalising it is actually going to stop people from doing it and the danger in criminalising something like people smoking in a car with children is where does it stop? Will people be prosecuted for feeding their kids a Happy Meal as thats bad for their health? Will people be in trouble for not ensuring their kids get enough exercise?

On the 'bet you cant give up smoking' comment. Im surprised you only know people who have quit because of a health scare. Im sitting in an office right now with 8 former smokers, and not one gave up over a health scare - simply gave up - ranging from 20 years ago to 2 years ago.

People you think are non smokers may well just be reformed smokers who dont advertise it.

 

[JoeB]

My opinion is that tobacco, and all nicotine products, should be completely banned, with immediate effect. Similar to heroin. (Alternatively all drugs should be legalised,.. I'm happy with either... either outright bans of everything, or all drugs being available legally)

Nicotine is an addictive poison, which kills when used according to directions. It is unique in that,.. no other product exists that kills when used according to instructions.

So why is nicotine given such a favoured place? Simply because of an historical accident that it wasn't banned previously? That's a silly reason to allow people to poison themselves.

I'd be surprised if anyone, anyone at all, can give a compelling reason for not banning tobacco tomorrow.
(The tax reason isn't good enough, unless people can choose to commit suicide on payment of a fee)
(The historical situation, where tobacco has traditionally being available... that's no good either. Cheese would be banned tomorrow if proved to be carciogenic.. so why not tobacco?)


These are real questions.. I cannot belive that our goverment continues to allow a poison to be sold.. I'm literally astonished whenever I think about it. I have never heard a single compelling reason for not banning it. Perhaps the effect on tourism, or prison riots, .. but are these good enough reason for allowing a killer poison to be sold, which will kill when used according to directions.

Incidenmtaly I am a smoker.. not through choice however, but through addiction. If banned tomorrow my smoking problem would be solved, as smoking is difficult to hide.

 

[Complainer]

I'd be surprised if anyone, anyone at all, can give a compelling reason for not banning tobacco tomorrow.

Look at what happened when alcohol was banned in the Prohibition era in the US. This was the best boost possible for organised crime and the mafia, giving them a clear run at supplying the huge demand in the market.

 

[Latrade]

My opinion is that tobacco, and all nicotine products, should be completely banned, with immediate effect. Similar to heroin. (Alternatively all drugs should be legalised,.. I'm happy with either... either outright bans of everything, or all drugs being available legally)

Nicotine is an addictive poison, which kills when used according to directions. It is unique in that,.. no other product exists that kills when used according to instructions.

you're mixing up tobacco and nicotine. You can take nicotine in small doses and it's fine. The illnesses and cancers are from all the other stuff in addition to the tobacco, not the nicotine.

Having said that, as a smoker, I don't smoke in the car full stop.

 

[JoeB]

Latrade.. you're saying that 'a safe' cigerette is possible? In other words, if someone just took the nicotine there'd be no health issues at all?

I find that hard to believe.

Complainer. That reason is not good enough for continuing to sell a poison that kills thousands every year. Would you support legalising heroin on the grounds that drug dealers would no longer make any money from it? (If yes, then that'd be an unusual viewpoint, if no then what's your point in relation to tobacco.. dangerous products should be banned, despite the backlash)

 

[Sunny]

Incidenmtaly I am a smoker.. not through choice however, but through addiction. If banned tomorrow my smoking problem would be solved, as smoking is difficult to hide.

So just because something was illegal, you would give it up tomorrow just like that. Not really an addiction then.

 

[Maggs065]

Latrade.. you're saying that 'a safe' cigerette is possible? In other words, if someone just took the nicotine there'd be no health issues at all?

Latrade is correct - the nicotine in cigarettes is not the problem - it's the chemicals (benzene etc.). Hence nicotine replacement products.

 

[Complainer]

Complainer. That reason is not good enough for continuing to sell a poison that kills thousands every year. Would you support legalising heroin on the grounds that drug dealers would no longer make any money from it? (If yes, then that'd be an unusual viewpoint, if no then what's your point in relation to tobacco.. dangerous products should be banned, despite the backlash)

We are where we are, Joe. Cigarettes are legal today, whether we like it or not. If you make them illegal, you will create a huge underground criminal market.

 

[JoeB]

Yes, making cigerettes illegal will create a black market, but so what. The Garda can prosectute offenders. At least 1000's of lives would be saved.


Nicotine is a poison to humans. Nicotine replacement products are a 'scam' (my opinion). They do not help in combating an addction, according to Allen Carr. The companies who sell them have a vested interest in their continued sale. (Allen Carr may have a vested interest in saying they don't work, but does he really?)

Heroin is not prescribed for heroin addictions, so why is nicotine prescribed for a nicotine addiction?, it makes no sense.
Are these nicotine replacement products so safe that there is no overdose risk? I wouldn't have thought so.


I still think the benefits of banning a poison outweighs the negatives, such as the potential of creating a black market.

 

[Binomial]

I wonder what Finian McGrath - the pro smoking TD has to say about the proposed "smoking in cars with children" ban?

 

[Complainer]

Yes, making cigerettes illegal will create a black market, but so what. The Garda can prosectute offenders. At least 1000's of lives would be saved.

Look at how successful that approach is for the heroin market, which is a much, much smaller market. Really, you'll be handing over huge amounts of money to organised criminals, who will use that money to fund more and more organised crime.

 

[Lex Foutish]

A number of times recently I have noticed people smoking in their car while there are children in the back. While smoking in a car is disgusting doing so when there are children should be criminal.
Should it be against the law to smoke in a car in which children are also present?

Purple, you're either a FG Health Minister advisor or a visionary! (I'm picturing you now, a la Nostradamus, with your feet in a dish of water and a towel over your head!)

Did it ever occur to you that Government ministers and their hacks trawl sites like this for good ideas.......?

Any chance that the Minister for Health and Healthy Eating could be photographed enjoying a pork salad sandwich and a pint of Beamish in The Long Valley inside in Town?

 

[Latrade]

Latrade.. you're saying that 'a safe' cigerette is possible? In other words, if someone just took the nicotine there'd be no health issues at all?

I find that hard to believe.

No there isn't any such thing as a safe cigarette because the simple act of inhaling anything other than air into our lungs is not overly welcomed by the body, it especially objects to smoke. So if you're inhaling any combustion product you will get problems.

However, the diseases related to smoking are from the by-products of tabacco combustion and not nictotine. Like all substances you can't say nicotine is 100% safe, try eating a packet of cigarettes rather than smoking and seeing how ill the nicotine poisoning makes you. However, it is not the carcinogen within the cigarette.

Unfortunately for Alan Carr, controlled replacement therapy for many addictions is effective. Unfortunately those silly scientists insist on demonstrating replacement efficacy and safety so despite Mr Carr's views, it's safe and it works.

The government didn't make you start smoking. Nobody forced me to have my first cigarette and to continue to smoke (as it takes a while for depenency to actually kick in).

There is no difference to you in whether they are banned or still available in giving up. Just act as if they were banned and don't buy them. It seems to me that it's an excuse for you to continue in your habit and blame others for doing so.

I blame no one but me. I'm not happy with myself, but it's on me. I know the consequences and I volunteer to them every time I buy and smoke a packet. If I didn't look so cool, manly and attractive smoking I'd stop in a heartbeat.

 

[SoylentGreen]

When my grandaughter stays with us she has a smoke free environment. When my grandaughter visits her other grandparents it is the complete opposite. Her mother also smokes, her dad doesn't. When she visits us after being with them her clothes and hair stink of stale cigarette smoke. I am sure she is breathing in secondary smoke also. It annoys me to hell. Anything to ban this dirty habit around children is O.K. with me.

 

[Guest105]

Bet you couldn't give them up even if you wanted to. You might like to think you can but you can't.

I know alot of smokers and the only people who gave them up successfully were the ones who had a health scare.

Damage is usually done by then.

You are not correct, I smoked for many years and tried a few times to give them up without success. I was totally addicted to them and would walk miles at night to the shops to buy a pack so I would have my fix for the next morning.

However, one night about ten years ago, I couldn't get to the shops and I sat down and thought about my addiction and I said to myself I am not going to allow these cigarettes to control my life any longer and from then on I never smoked another cigarette. True for a few years afterwards the cravings came and went but I never gave in. Today, I wouldn't touch a cigarette for love nor money and my health and general well being is fantastic.

The point being you can't tell someone to stop it has to come from within themselves and then and only then will they succeed.

 

[onq]

cashier,

Well done.

I had a similar experience except not so drastic

( should we rename this the ex-smokers coming-out thread? )

I totally agree with the OP in relation to not only children but all non-smokers.

I believe they should be banned permanently except in designated smoking areas.

It used to be a pleasure to walk along a street past offices shops, restaurants, pubs and workplaces.

Now you can't walk down any town without passing from cloud to cloud of smoke generated by well-dressed corner-boys and girls, lounging around trying to look comfortable having their fag.

A colleague once told me he had to ask an employee to leave, because in addition to the regular breaks at 11, 1 and 4, they were talking five minutes and more every half hour to have a cigarette.

His hours sheet calculations showed him he was losing an hour a day!

The only reason we've managed to survive this recession is that I don't smoke.

An average of 20 fags a day at €8.50 is over €3,000 a year!

Control your addiction or it controls you!

ONQ.

 

[Complainer]

It used to be a pleasure to walk along a street past offices shops, restaurants, pubs and workplaces.

I got one business to stop their staff from smoking and littering on the public pavement, with a bit of lobbying and pressure. Don't stand for this kind of anti-social behaviour.