Eamonn Ryan/IRFU Free to Air Debate

[cork]

For an idiot like Ryan to propose damaging the investment in our rugby players and teams, an extremely valuable natural resource, (what's Ryan's portfolio again?) through his asinine proposals is a sacking offence, IMHO..

The Rugby association had no problem with accepting millions of tax payers support.

Rugby players have no problem with the tax breaks.

Now they want to maximise revenue.

Let them - but they should be a sea change in govt. policy.

A message has to be sent out to all sporting organisations.

 

[Sunny]

The Rugby association had no problem with accepting millions of tax payers support.

Rugby players have no problem with the tax breaks.

Now they want to maximise revenue.

Let them - but they should be a sea change in govt. policy.

A message has to be sent out to all sporting organisations.

The Government receives a multiple back of what it spends on sport in this Country. Every economic analysis carried out on the subject proves that.

No-one including the Minister or yourself has made one good argument as to why European Cup games are so important. We pretend we are some sort of sporting mad nation. We are not. We are an 'Occasion' mad Country.
Athletics is a perfect example. Athletics is a much bigger part of Irish sporting culture and history than rugby is and yet RTE cannot be bothered to show the World Championships depsite having paid out for the rights. Why doesn't the Minister look at that instead of involving himself in something that is working perfectly fine.

 

[mathepac]

I'm not sure what point your post is trying to make but I'm a bit worried by the Ryan-like nature of it.

Sporting organisations, amateur and professional, have no problem accepting tax payers' support. Few of them generate anything like the international success and achievements of the IRFU or anything like the positive revenue streams coming into the country by travelling foreign supporters attending representative matches.

The Government granted tax-breaks to professional rugby players, based on the business case made to them by the IRFU; the Dept, of Finance / Revenue would have weighed the pros and cons.

The IRFU runs the professional and amateur games in this country; the revenues generated from the professional game are invested in the schools and amateur clubs as well as in coaching, facilities development, games development officers and other initiatives. Of course the IRFU wants to maximise revenue - can you name a successful, professionally-run, commercial organisation that wants to minimize revenue?

I agree about sending out a message to all sporting organisation and it should read something like, "Either be as successful and egalitarian as the IRFU or face the withdrawal of tax-breaks and other government funding".

Eamonn Ryan please note: Mary Hanafin can arrange a grind to improve your poor sums and spreadsheet training is available from the Dept, of Finance.

 

[cork]

The Government granted tax-breaks to professional rugby players, based on the business case made to them by the IRFU; the Dept, of Finance / Revenue would have weighed the pros and cons.

It is about time that rock stars, tax exiles and sports people paid more tax.

How much does the IRFU pay lobbyists?

France has the Heiken Cup on Free to Air.

It seems to be working for them.

 

[Sunny]

It is about time that rock stars, tax exiles and sports people paid more tax.

How much does the IRFU pay lobbyists?

France has the Heiken Cup on Free to Air.

It seems to be working for them.

Sports stars do pay tax. They get a rebate when they retire. Not every sportsperson is on premiership wages. You are hitting athletes and other low paid sports people then.

This isn't the States. Can't imagine they pay lobbyists anything unless you can prove something?

Actually it doesn't. The games are split between subscription and pay per view. They want to change that but you can't compare Ireland and France. There is much more competition in France than here with RTE and TV3 so it is not as damaging. There are also much more stations on which to show the actual games.

 

[TarfHead]

We pretend we are some sort of sporting mad nation. We are not. We are an 'Occasion' mad Country.

+1

Something I read this weekend was along the lines of '.. 82000 people crammed into Croke Park last year to see Kerry win the All Ireland. Last week, just 5000 turned up to see them open their defence of the title ..'.

 

[cork]

They get a rebate when they retire. Not every sportsperson is on premiership wages.

Either are the vast majority of the population.

The govt. has paid millions over to bodies like the IFRU - It is about time govt got better bang for this.

Fair play to Ryan putting his foot down with the IRFU. Let a strong message be sent out to the FAI and GAA.

These bodies lobbying govt for funds and getting addiditional money from pay for view tv companies.

 

[mathepac]

It is about time that rock stars, tax exiles and sports people paid more tax ...

Off-topic generic rant, this thread is about rugby.

... How much does the IRFU pay lobbyists? ...

I have no idea if they employ them or what they pay them. Do you know what they or the GAA, FAI, etc pay or what the Government PR budget is? If you do please post the numbers.

... France has the Heiken Cup on Free to Air ...

Not entirely true, but even if it were maybe Mr. Ryan needs to commission some research, have Mary H. do a few sums and maybe even find some common-sense.

Metropolitan France has a population of about 62M (the island of Ireland is about 4M) that means (pay attention Mr. Ryan) they have 15.5 times the population and consequently can demand higher contributions from sponsors.

FFR has 213,000 registered players and 1,700 clubs, 7 of which compete in top-class European competitions.

IRFU has 95,000 registered players and 205 clubs, 4 of which compete in top-class European competitions.

In relative terms we are minnows; disruption to any single source of income (there will of course be less sources, given the smaller populations) is likely to have a relatively greater impact.

... It seems to be working for them.

It sure does and part of the reason for that is simply that they are bigger, have more money, more revenue streams, more clout, more clubs, more players, coaches, managers earning greater salaries and anecdotally at least more experience at the professional Union game, as well as a small number of established League clubs.

Please compare like with like; simplistic, unresearched arguments may be regarded as simply trolling, even if initiated by junior Ministers.

 

[Sunny]

Either are the vast majority of the population.

The govt. has paid millions over to bodies like the IFRU - It is about time govt got better bang for this.

Fair play to Ryan putting his foot down with the IRFU. Let a strong message be sent out to the FAI and GAA.

These bodies lobbying govt for funds and getting addiditional money from pay for view tv companies.

You are trolling now. Or else you just sound like a broken record.

Wouldn't say you have ever set foot in a rubgy, gaa or soccer club in your entire life.

Just stick to watching sport on tv.

 

[TarfHead]

There is one other benefit of having the HEC on PPV; it keeps Tom McGurk off our screens. I watched the RTE highlights on Saturday evening and McGurk makes me want to put my foot through the TV .

At least BillO understands that his role is to allow the panellists time to answer questions and provide an analysis. McGurk seems to think people tune in to listen to him and continually cuts across the experts.

When he referred to The Barbarians as the BarBars, more than once on Saturday, he made SKY never more appealing.

 

[Purple]

It should also be remembered that French clubs are privately owned, many of them by very rich men and most clubs don’t own their own stadiums, the local municipality does and the clubs have access to them for knock-down prices.

In short the French don’t have the same costs associated with funding the amateur game, they have huge private financial backing, they have a much bigger income from advertising, they don’t have the cost of maintaining their grounds, they receive massive indirect financial support from the state (their grounds) and the games are still not free to air!

Cork, can you address any of the above please?

 

[Purple]

There is one other benefit of having the HEC on PPV; it keeps Tom McGurk off our screens. I watched the RTE highlights on Saturday evening and McGurk makes me want to put my foot through the TV .

At least BillO understands that his role is to allow the panellists time to answer questions and provide an analysis. McGurk seems to think people tune in to listen to him and continually cuts across the experts.

When he referred to The Barbarians as the BarBars, more than once on Saturday, he made SKY never more appealing.

Yes but the match commentry on Sky is always brutal.

 

[TarfHead]

Yes but the match commentry on Sky is always brutal.

True, but ..

Ryle Nugent ?
Fred Cogley ?

Not a glass house that RTE can throw stones at !

 

[Purple]

OK, lets get some facts here.
Of the €12 million that the IRFU get from TV rights how much of it is actually with Sky and how much of it is for the European Cup (they must get a portion of the SKY money for the 6-Nations as well)?
If RTE showed the European Cup how much would they pay the IRFU for it?

What we need to establish is what the net loss to the IRFU would be and would that balance out the extra viewership (particularly the extra kids watching it).

All the rants about Finna Gael and showing the IRFU etc adds nothing.
What are the costs and what are the benefits.

 

[cork]

Wouldn't say you have ever set foot in a rubgy, gaa or soccer club in your entire life.

Just stick to watching sport on tv.

Wrong

The FG stance on this is a disgrace. Have FG a clue on the amount of taxpayers money going into rugby?

What lobbying have the IRFU done on TDs?

Pretty legitimate questions IMO.

 

[Purple]

Wrong

The FG stance on this is a disgrace. Have FG a clue on the amount of taxpayers money going into rugby?

What lobbying have the IRFU done on TDs?

Pretty legitimate questions IMO.

Give it a rest will you.

The issue is whether it is better for the game to have it free to air. I'm not sure either way myself so I'm welcome dome constructive discussion rather than constant comments about FG.

 

[cork]

But say with free to view - Didn't Tg4 do a great job with the Celtic League?

S4c are doing a great job with the Magniers.

Welsh people came watch their games free to view but the Irish have to pay for them.

Is this fair when our government are supporting the game?

 

[TarfHead]

But say with free to view - Didn't Tg4 do a great job with the Celtic League?

Did they ? I don't remember them doing as good a job as Setanta have, i.e. re-runs of coverage, highlights, panel analysis.

S4c are doing a great job with the Magniers.

Are they ? I can't say - S4C isn't FTA where I am .

Welsh people came watch their games free to view but the Irish have to pay for them.

Rugby is the #1 game in Wales, so not a valid comparison.

Is this fair when our government are supporting the game?

Yet again, you repeat the assertion that Govt funding = free access to the public, yet when challenged on that point, you repeat yourself, or go off on some anti-Fine Gael rant

 

[cork]

Govt funding = free access to the public

It should mean a better deal for the taxpayer.

 

[Leo]

Govt funding = free access to the public

That, as I'm sure you know yourself is 100% incorrect. Remember the government funding of hotels? What are you getting free there?

Cork, you have consistantly failed to address any of the substantive questions asked of you here, and just come back with the same invalid arguments.