Would you vote for a FF candidate if . . .

Complainer said:
Are you omitting any key parties from your list of those responsible? Hint: who provided the legislation and public policy that consistently subsidised the property industry for the past 15 years.
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Local Authorities failed miserably to build houses during the celtic tiger era as they did in the 1950s. But FF only got 30% at the last locals.

All governments subsidised property. FG, Labour, the Greens, FF gave mortgage interest relief.
 
Complainer said:
There is a big difference between making an investment decision and buying a home.
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You are right, people should be far more careful and take a considered approach when buying a home. People bought homes but how many bought outside of their financial comfort zone? Buying a home is no excuse for removing logic from your purchase and simply saying Bertie said it was the way to go is simplistic and doesnt carry weight. As I have said before, the perception of politicians has never been good in this country, the back handers and stories of corruption etc, so when we say we only did it because they were pushing an agenda it really is a case of only hearing what we wanted to hear.
 
MrMan said:
You are right, people should be far more careful and take a considered approach when buying a home. People bought homes but how many bought outside of their financial comfort zone? Buying a home is no excuse for removing logic from your purchase and simply saying Bertie said it was the way to go is simplistic and doesnt carry weight. As I have said before, the perception of politicians has never been good in this country, the back handers and stories of corruption etc, so when we say we only did it because they were pushing an agenda it really is a case of only hearing what we wanted to hear.
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True to an extent - but it is easy to criticise with hindsight. If you turn back the clock, and put yourself in their shoes, looking at 10 years of escalating prices, seeing their chance to get on the property ladder moving out of their reach, it is not hard to see why people were somewhat desperate to buy.

cork said:
Local Authorities failed miserably to build houses during the celtic tiger era as they did in the 1950s. But FF only got 30% at the last locals.
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FF HQ would be proud of your attempts to deflect and divert attention. But it is a fairly flimsy attempt. Who is responsible for funding local authority capital projects (such as social housing)? I'm sure you don't need a hint for that one.
cork said:
All governments subsidised property. FG, Labour, the Greens, FF gave mortgage interest relief.
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Again, more diversion and deflections. FF have been in power since 1994. Perhaps you would answer the question that you avoided - do you believe that FF hold any responsibility for our current economic woes?
 
MrMan said:
As I have said before, the perception of politicians has never been good in this country, the back handers and stories of corruption etc, so when we say we only did it because they were pushing an agenda it really is a case of only hearing what we wanted to hear.
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Well said but I suspect that if FF came up with a perpetual motion machine, cold fusion and the formula for turning seawater into gold Complainer would be opposed to it.
 
My biggest dilemma right now is that I'm floating back to an FF vote. Last time I checked this was a local and European election. Yet each candidate on the doorstep is making it an anti-FF issue. While at first this might be ok, now it's starting to get repetitive.

Where's the discussion on local or European issues? Sure, bash the government, but if you want my vote for your seat at least give me a hint as to what you intend to do for the next few years. The irony is that the FF candidates have obviously been doing everything to distance themselves from the national side and so have been very focussed on local/European issues.

This is now the worst example of opportunism and the worst side of those with political aspirations. Instead of trying to help the country, everyone who's ever gotten slightly aroused on a bit of power has come out sensing blood and seeing this as an opportunity for them to get on the gravy train. It's not even single issue candidates as they have no issues to communicate other than let's "send a message to the government"? And once that message has been sent, what do you intend to do for the local community? Not a difficult question, but one that has been avoided on the door step.

A classic example was a "debate" between Eoin Ryan and Mary Lou McDonald. I say "debate" as a comatose, constipated hamster on life support could out debate McDonald. But she couldn't give one example of how her term in Europe has been of benefit to the State. Instead she chose a path of negativity against Ryan, stating he was making a "bogus" claims. Even though he proved his claims were correct.

I guess for some people negative campaigning is enough. I'd rather here what they intend to do for my vote. Sadly this isn't forthcoming, maybe I'm a freak and should be satisfied in giving my vote to someone in order to "send a message".

I guess this etcha-sketch approach to democracy (shake it up and erase when you don't like it) is symptomatic of how we've all had a little hand in the current situation. We wanted all the goods and fancy stuff without thought of the long term consequences and now we're willing to give away votes to power hungry candidates without thought of the long term consequences.
 
Again, more diversion and deflections. FF have been in power since 1994. Perhaps you would answer the question that you avoided - do you believe that FF hold any responsibility for our current economic woes?
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Yes - spending could have been controled better & the public sector could have been reformed. Competition could have been introduced in more areas & the lack of broadband is a disgrace.

FG and Labour were calling for more spending. FG wanted to cut stamp duty and Labour wanted more tax cuts.

No Political party was blameless.

Facts are - people were sucked in by the borrow and spend type of atitude. They are now left with big loans and negative equity.
 
cork said:
Yes - spending could have been controled better & the public sector could have been reformed. Competition could have been introduced in more areas & the lack of broadband is a disgrace.

FG and Labour were calling for more spending. FG wanted to cut stamp duty and Labour wanted more tax cuts.

No Political party was blameless.

Facts are - people were sucked in by the borrow and spend type of attitude. They are now left with big loans and negative equity.
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While I agree with all of what you say, I think your second last sentence encapsulates the nub of the problem. Older people, who had seen recessions before, were less prone to such ovine behaviour. But I still feel sorry for everyone that has taken a hit.
 
While I agree with all of what you say, I think your second last sentence encapsulates the nub of the problem. Older people, who had seen recessions before, were less prone to such ovine behaviour. But I still feel sorry for everyone that has taken a hit.
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Thats the kernel of it. Muptiples of joint salaries were common place for mortgage applications.

This was a disgrace.

I remember the David Mc Williams "Agenda" programme of the early 00's.

He consistantly stressed that houses were over priced.

Where was the regulator and the central bank.

There was an absense of reality from all political partys.
 
cork said:
Local Authorities failed miserably to build houses during the celtic tiger era as they did in the 1950s. But FF only got 30% at the last locals.

All governments subsidised property. FG, Labour, the Greens, FF gave mortgage interest relief.
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And it was this subsidising of the property market that lead to distorted prices, a bubble, a crash and negative equity.
 
And it was this subsidising of the property market that lead to distorted prices, a bubble, a crash and negative equity.
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Mortgage interest relief has been there for years.

The main cause of the bubble (IMO) was people were sucked into the frenzy.

It was akin to a Pymanid schemes.
 
johnd said:
Shay Brennan is actually 35 years old! Am I the ony one who thinks he looks terrified all the time? All that responsibility on such young shoulders I suppose, all those family expectations...
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I like the way he is described in FF leaflets and press releases that he works in Financial Services.

Why would he be afraid to declare that he works for Anglo Irish Bank?
 
Mpsox said:
have to say the quality of FG candidates is high this time around. Those of you with dubious musical taste may remember this candidate from her time in Six (or was it 5, or 7???)

[broken link removed]
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Yeah, I noticed Sinéad's posters (couldn't help it, really) on the way back from East Cork yesterday. Never knew she existed and she looks much better in the posters than in the above FG link.

Have to agree with you about the "quality" of FG candidates this time around. ;)
 
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