TEETU Dispute with the Electrical Contractors (REA's etc)

Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Do you think that the so-called "higher professions" do not operate restrictive practices?

This is of course practiced by other professions, try being a solicitor or an accountant, architect, do they not have to be in a society that dictates the rate they charge?. I thought that to join a trade union you had to prove that you were time served?
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

It's the employers who impose the condition on staff they recruit (albeit at the request of the union).

I think that the Employers and unions have entered into this agreement because at the time the situation was one, where they both could only agree on this and both were happy with the T&C conditions without thinking about the long term implications if the tiger ever became a mouse.

That did not only happen in this case, this was the case across so many parts of business and politics.

I find it outrages that employers actually entered into such an agreement, so in fact next time I need an electrician I will boycott anybody who is part of the ECA or AOEC.

Do you think that the so-called "higher professions" do not operate restrictive practices?

Just because other people do restrictive practices too does not make it right in either case.

Restrictions to get work because of your political affiliation are wrong. And please don’t even try to argue that a union is not a political organisation. The arranged demonstrations of “congress” clearly show that they have moved away from being an arm of the Labour Party and evolved into a political machine.

There were times where you could not get a job in Germany when you were not a member of the NSDAP or in the USSR if you were not member of the Communist Party.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

I thought that to join a trade union you had to prove that you were time served?
Nope, I’m sure that the bearded brethren would like to have it that way so that they can leech off even more people trying to make a living but thankfully we still have some freedoms in this country.
I’m a time served tradesman and I have never been in a union. I work with lots of other tradesmen and they, with two exceptions, have never been in a union. We do not recognise any union, it has never come up. It is because we don’t have these malign bloodsuckers in our midst that in many decades of business we have never has any strike or industrial dispute of any kind.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Prior to retiring from my job in the Financial Services sector I was a member of a Trade Union.
I worked a 35 hour week , any time worked after that was paid as overtime.
I enjoyed 30 days leave annually.
Pay increases under the various National wage agreements were always honoured including the 3.5% payable late last year under the current agreement towards 2016.
I always had the comfort of knowing that the union would protect our interests in the event of terms and conditions being challenged.
I was able to retire at the age of 52 with a pension equal to approx 55% of my final salary together with a substantial lump sum.
I appreciate how lucky I am but equally realise that the benefits I enjoy now and indeed when I worked were due to being part of a strongly unionised workforce.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Deiseblue, You were lucky not to have someone like Devoy in your Union, a person that would "bring the country down to get money for his workers" Treason is not to be admired ! That guy is a dinosaur and should be extinct. Don't be fooled by his assertion that 93% of electricians balloted for strike, many many electricainas were not balloted, these were counted as yes , but thousands of these guys are continuing to work. Also many ECA firms & AECI firms employ non union sparks, it is illegal to refuse someone employment if they are not in a union.

Secman
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)



Published April 28th, 2008 in Other Issues
Martin Nolan handed me the letter. I glanced at the first line.”Dear Brother Nolan,” it began.
“An heirloom?” I enquired. “Written to your grandfather?”
“Not at all,” he replied. “It was written this month. To me.”
Martin had received a bombshell from Arthur Hall, the secretary of his union. Or at least the outfit that he thought was his union. Brother Hall’s letter told him that he was being kicked out of the TEEU.
Brother Martin Nolan had broken no union rules. His sin: joining it.

Last year, Martin lost faith in the dinosaurs at Siptu, the mostly bearded guys who rule the roost at Ireland’s compost of trades unions. Unhappy with the Siptu standard of service, he decided to switch to the TEEU.
Martin should have known better. Members are not allowed to lose faith in Siptu. It would be easier to leave the IRA.
Martin and seven of his colleagues working at Dublin Port were accepted for membership of the TEEU, paid their dues and spent several months happy in the company of more congenial comrades. Then the long arm of Siptu flexed its biceps.
An “investigation committee” — no less — was set up to probe these troublesome workers who asserted their right to join another union. Who carried out the investigation? No lesser figures than the general secretaries of both unions. And the two heavyweight investigators came to a happy conclusion: the eight dissidents were to leave TEEU and head back to Siptu. To hell with their personal preferences. Siptu wanted them back. The TEEU buckled under pressure.
Eamon Devoy, the incoming TEEU boss, sent off the surrender letter to Brother Hall revealing that “an investigation committee was established arising from which a decision has been made that the members … should resume their membership of Siptu.” Brother Hall then advised Brother Martin Nolan and the other seven brethren.
It is bad enough union bosses telling the lads that their membership of the TEEU was cancelled under pressure from Siptu; but it is far worse when the same dinosaurs decide that the workers should return to Siptu. Eamon Devoy should not make such demands. Pluckily, the lads did not comply.
An unusual device was used to enforce the wishes of the investigators. It emerges that Siptu and the TEEU have a little agreement. It is called the “TUF” (Trades Union Friendship) pact. A sort of non-compete deal. If the banks were at the same wheeze we would call it a cartel. It stops unions offering better conditions to each others’ members.
Siptu and the TEEU have opted not to compete over members down in Dublin Port. Indeed, if there is any hint of frisky members eyeing the benefits of the other union, the losing union will move like greased lightening to protect its patch and invoke the deal.
The agreement works wonders for the union bosses. It creates a prison for the trades union members. Somewhat sinisterly, the dinosaurs call the deal the “Spheres of Influence Agreement”. Siptu-speak for a territorial carve up.
‘Brother’ Nolan and his pals bolted. They escaped deep into enemy territory where they were originally welcomed as defectors. Then, under pressure, the TEEU bosses booted the boys back into the arms of their original Siptu captors.
Siptu maintains that they were evicted from the TEEU because they were not craftsmen, they were the wrong grades; that the TEEU is a craft union and that these guys do not belong there.
Which would be vaguely credible, except that the TEEU has just accepted identikit defectors from another union, the Seamen’s Union of Ireland (SUI). Same grades, same jobs. A trifle awkward, that. But there is bad blood between Siptu and the SUI. No self-respecting member of the SUI would touch Siptu with a barge pole.
Last Thursday it was time to tackle the brethren about Brother Nolan’s difficulty
So I rang the TEEU. Could I speak to Brother Arthur?
Brother Arthur was in South America. Not a bad place to be this weather. Was he on a fraternal visit to Hugo Chavez in Venezuela? Or did he call into Cuba en route? As Brother Arthur was not at work, maybe the general secretary (designate), Brother Eamon Devoy, could help, I asked?
Brother Eamon was at “meetings”. He would ring back in the afternoon. In the afternoon he was at meetings. “Lots of meetings,” I commented to the voice at the other end of the telephone. “That is what trades unions are all about,” she riposted testily. Touche. At Siptu’s Liberty Hall HQ, no one admitted to being in South America. They, too, were all at “meetings”. Probably cooking up more Trade Union Friendship deals and Spheres of Influence agreements.
Joe O’Flynn, the well-rewarded general secretary, who spent so much time investigating the breach of the Siptu/TEEU deal, was at ‘meetings’. So was everybody else whom I sought. No dice from the top brass. One official , who was unlucky enough to pick up the phone, offered the excuse that Martin and the lads were of the wrong grades.
Perhaps I should have asked for the biggest dinosaur of them all, the generously bearded Jack O’Connor, Siptu’s general president. Jack is not inclined to take my calls; but I already knew his position. Last month he wrote to Labour TD Joe Costello explaining Siptu’s extraordinary stance on union members with itchy feet and specifically Brother Martin Nolan’s case. According to Jack, the position is “very simple”.
“It is governed by the rules of the Irish Congress of Trades Unions which are designed to facilitate strong trade union organisation and limit the potential for a multiplicity of unions organising the same group of workers.
“As you will appreciate, this latter situation would greatly weaken trade union organisation.”
The union is what matters, not the individual’s right to choice. According to Jack the workers are there to be “organised”. Jack goes on. “In accordance with these rules and with the bilateral agreement between Siptu and the TEEU that union has accepted that it should not take Martin into membership.” It is signed “yours fraternally”, but thankfully Jack stops short of addressing the Labour TD as “Brother Joe”.
Just imagine all the whingeing we would have heard from Jack, if employers in any single industry cooked up a deal, agreeing never to employ each others’ staff. Jack would rightly raise merry hell.
But on Thursday, Jack would have been far too busy to take anybody’s calls. He was up in Government Buildings, fraternising with his real brothers, including Brother Turlough O’Sullivan the pushover from Ibec, cooking up another pay pact to sell to the sad suckers who are forced to stay in Siptu.
And, when the posturing is over, when the deal is sealed, when Turlough and his wimps have performed their ritual surrender, Jack can resume the real fight —


jUST ANOTHER INSIGHT OF TEEU & DINO

Secman
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Secman, your post reminded me of my first summer job in 1989 with Irish Ferries (B&I Line as it was known then).
There was big hassle between the two unions at the time as many of the staff were not happy with SUI and left to join SIPTU. If memory serves me correct, SUI were seen to be very militant at the time, striking for minor issues.

Regards the electricians strike I see that the employers are softening on the 10% pay cut. I wonder if this the reasoning behind the the strike - Look for a pay rise but happy to accept the rate of pay they have at the moment?
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Deiseblue, You were lucky not to have someone like Devoy in your Union, a person that would "bring the country down to get money for his workers" Treason is not to be admired ! That guy is a dinosaur and should be extinct. Don't be fooled by his assertion that 93% of electricians balloted for strike, many many electricainas were not balloted, these were counted as yes , but thousands of these guys are continuing to work. Also many ECA firms & AECI firms employ non union sparks, it is illegal to refuse someone employment if they are not in a union.

Secman
I was merely pointing out the huge advantages of being in a strongly unionised work force from my point of view and indeed from the point of view of my colleagues in terms of enhancing and protecting terms and conditions.
It now appears that the question of a 10% decrease in pay has been dropped by the contactors and hopefully a compromise can now be reached at the LRC although it does appear that some sort of pay increase will have to be negotiated before the TEEU will settle.
I have no reason to distrust the TEEU's assertion that they have a huge mandate for strike action.
I would far prefer to be represented by Mr. Eamon Devoy then by Tom Parlon whose industrial relation skills need a bit of polishing !
Nor should we forget who Mr. Parlon represents - the sector who contributed so much to our economic downturn by their avarice.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

These union guys are very shortsighted,they may win the fight, but they Will lose the war.

There is no doubt in my mind that,that if they do get a payrise the consequences will be far reaching.And thats losing the war.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

I was merely pointing out the huge advantages of being in a strongly unionised work force from my point of view and indeed from the point of view of my colleagues in terms of enhancing and protecting terms and conditions.
It now appears that the question of a 10% decrease in pay has been dropped by the contactors and hopefully a compromise can now be reached at the LRC although it does appear that some sort of pay increase will have to be negotiated before the TEEU will settle.
I have no reason to distrust the TEEU's assertion that they have a huge mandate for strike action.
I would far prefer to be represented by Mr. Eamon Devoy then by Tom Parlon whose industrial relation skills need a bit of polishing !
Nor should we forget who Mr. Parlon represents - the sector who contributed so much to our economic downturn by their avarice.

There are huge advantages for those in the union just as there are huge advantages for those in the mafia. The problem is that someone else has to pay for those advantages. In the case of the Public and Civil Service it’[s the general tax payer. In the case of those in the banks who enjoyed DB pensions it’s the customers who pay higher charges and the newer employees who get paid less so that the banks can fund the gargantuan DB pension funds. In the case of the electricians it’s the other building workers who are getting paid up to 50% less than a few years ago and now can’t even get into work and the many hundreds of building workers who will lose their jobs over the next few weeks because of the strike.

But that’s what vested interest groups in general, and unions in particular, are all about; screwing someone else so that their members get a larger slice of the cake.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

But that’s what vested interest groups in general, and unions in particular, are all about; screwing someone else so that their members get a larger slice of the cake.

LOL: I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

It's the whole "member's interests" that's the killer in all representative bodies. Even when the interests of the members are far wide of the greater good and ultimately, as in this case, self-serving, selfish and likely to have major consequences for the rest of their "brothers".
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Latrade & Purple - completely agree.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

im just worried when this is over, how the manufacturing companies and their headquarters are going to look at this. How they can be impacted by something they have no controll over. Especially how they can use this against Ireland as place to do biz and give them excuses to leave or not invest more.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

There are huge advantages for those in the union just as there are huge advantages for those in the mafia. The problem is that someone else has to pay for those advantages. In the case of the Public and Civil Service it’[s the general tax payer. In the case of those in the banks who enjoyed DB pensions it’s the customers who pay higher charges and the newer employees who get paid less so that the banks can fund the gargantuan DB pension funds. In the case of the electricians it’s the other building workers who are getting paid up to 50% less than a few years ago and now can’t even get into work and the many hundreds of building workers who will lose their jobs over the next few weeks because of the strike.

But that’s what vested interest groups in general, and unions in particular, are all about; screwing someone else so that their members get a larger slice of the cake.
Unions are simply there to enhance where possible the terms and conditions of it's members and in more difficult times to endeavour to protect such terms and conditions as mandated by their members.
You would presumably agree that the Construction sector as a vested interest group have royally screwed the country to a degree unequalled by any other vested interest group and with the Banks aided by a light legislative hand have deepened our recession ?
Still it's good to see you realise that there are huge advantages in being a union member although your comparison with the mafia would be better applied to our Banks and Developers !
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

im just worried when this is over, how the manufacturing companies and their headquarters are going to look at this. How they can be impacted by something they have no controll over. Especially how they can use this against Ireland as place to do biz and give them excuses to leave or not invest more.

Exactly!! Watch that space.

Thats what I mean by winning the argument and losing the war..

Irish distillers have now secured an injunction against the unions picketing.

I wonder how much all this legal action has cost the companies involved and whos going to pay for it?

Hopefully the "Brothers" will have to pay ..
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Unions are simply there to enhance where possible the terms and conditions of it's members and in more difficult times to endeavour to protect such terms and conditions as mandated by their members.
You would presumably agree that the Construction sector as a vested interest group have royally screwed the country to a degree unequalled by any other vested interest group and with the Banks aided by a light legislative hand have deepened our recession ?
Still it's good to see you realise that there are huge advantages in being a union member although your comparison with the mafia would be better applied to our Banks and Developers !

The Construction sector didn’t screw up the country, the government and Social(ist) Partners did. They created an economically suicidal environment which the construction sector reacted to. Every individual who sold their own home to the highest bidder during this period was just as much part of the problem. The core problem was that the government didn’t govern and so the vested interest groups, be they CONGRESS (ictu), IBEC, the CIF, the Banks, CORI, SIPTU etc were given an almost free hand to carve up the country.

The Mafia analogy is sound; if I, upon attempting to move my accounts from Bank of Ireland to AIB, was told that I could not do so as there was an agreement between the banks not to take each other’s customers then it might apply to them. But it wouldn’t happen so the analogy doesn’t fit.

The Mafia is also there to protect the interests of its members (“made man” rather than “Comrades”) to the detriment of the rest of the general population.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

Prior to retiring from my job in the Financial Services sector I was a member of a Trade Union.
I worked a 35 hour week , any time worked after that was paid as overtime.
I enjoyed 30 days leave annually.
Pay increases under the various National wage agreements were always honoured including the 3.5% payable late last year under the current agreement towards 2016.
I always had the comfort of knowing that the union would protect our interests in the event of terms and conditions being challenged.
I was able to retire at the age of 52 with a pension equal to approx 55% of my final salary together with a substantial lump sum.
I appreciate how lucky I am but equally realise that the benefits I enjoy now and indeed when I worked were due to being part of a strongly unionised workforce.

Deiseblue, I don't begrudge you your good fortune. Truly I don't. But - and it is a big but -the terms and conditions which you enjoyed simply cannot be enjoyed by most people. We have economy where the public sector, banks, utilities and a few other industries (brewers, for example) are held to ransom by unions to deliver pay and conditions which simply cannot be matched elsewhere.

There is a cost to be paid for this. We all end up with dear electricity, expensive banking, costly public services. I think I would be quite happy to see the terms and conditions to which you refer comprehensively dismantled; I would like to see unions grow and prosper when it comes to protecting the rights of supermarket workers, cleaners, petrol station attendants, general operatives in factories etc. But the 'protected' sectors are where unions do most of their business, and it leaves a bad taste
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

The Construction sector didn’t screw up the country, the government and Social(ist) Partners did. They created an economically suicidal environment which the construction sector reacted to. Every individual who sold their own home to the highest bidder during this period was just as much part of the problem. The core problem was that the government didn’t govern and so the vested interest groups, be they CONGRESS (ictu), IBEC, the CIF, the Banks, CORI, SIPTU etc were given an almost free hand to carve up the country.

The Mafia analogy is sound; if I, upon attempting to move my accounts from Bank of Ireland to AIB, was told that I could not do so as there was an agreement between the banks not to take each other’s customers then it might apply to them. But it wouldn’t happen so the analogy doesn’t fit.

The Mafia is also there to protect the interests of its members (“made man” rather than “Comrades”) to the detriment of the rest of the general population.
A minority view I would have thought !
It appears to me that the general concensus is that the sectors that deepened our economy were the Banking and Construction sectors with the construction sector displaying a level of avarice equalled only by the enthusiasm displayed by the lightly regulated Banks to lend them funds to sustain their greed.
Anglo Irish does'nt smack of Mafia type behaviour to you ?
Brian Goggins salary does'nt seem like a tribute to the Don ?
As I say I merely pointed out the benefits of being in a strongly unionised workforce and how fortunate I was to be a union member !
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

A minority view I would have thought !
It appears to me that the general concensus is that the sectors that deepened our economy were the Banking and Construction sectors with the construction sector displaying a level of avarice equalled only by the enthusiasm displayed by the lightly regulated Banks to lend them funds to sustain their greed.
I sold a house in the last 5 years. I sold it to the highest bidder. The reason that the highest bidder could bid so much is because the government failed to manage the economy properly and allowed cheap money to wash over us like a tsunami. Should I have sold to a lower bidder because I knew that we were in a credit fuelled property bubble? If the answer is no then why should anyone else?
Did the private citizens who traded down, selling to the highest bidder also “displaying a level of avarice equalled only by the enthusiasm displayed by the lightly regulated Banks”?
Yes, the banks were stupid and short sighted, but the book stops with the government and they were AWOL from the economy for most of the last 10 years.

Anglo Irish does'nt smack of Mafia type behaviour to you ?
I would be banned if I expressed my opinions on Anglo-Irish and it’s board.
As I say I merely pointed out the benefits of being in a strongly unionised workforce and how fortunate I was to be a union member !
And I merely pointed out the impact that has on your fellow citizens who are not in the club.
 
Re: NEETU Eletricians Dispute (Eamon Devoy on Joe Duffy)

The TEEU over the years of the "Boom" sought and got on average 5 & 6 % increases and this did not affect our baloon economy ? The admin staff of the Electrical Contractors also got their annual increase, but in 2009 they have ( where jobs have been retained) taken between 10% & 20% decreases, they live in the real world, they see the current work levels, they see the current tender rates, they see how difficult it is to get money in. They don't deem the company merely as a " job agency" as Mr Devoy described it last Friday, a 10yr old child would see this is not the case. And on the matter of the assertion of 93% in favour of the strike, I can and do seriously question this number, based on the fact that thousands of electricians are currently working on the smaller sites and are being thanked by the other tradesmen on those sites. It is also foolhardy to omit NECI from the talks as they will, as they have done previously take out a High Court injunction on any matters they are not in agreement to.

Mr Devoy was the union rep dealing with Team Aer lingus issues some years back, that whole institution now SR Technics is lost to anther more competitive country !


Secman
 
Back
Top