RTE Leaders Debate - Claire Byrne live - Monday 15th

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Gerry Canning said:
Sees what is wrong (don't we all) and big on aspirations but where is the money to come from = will we accept more taxes.
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silly question. where is any of the money coming from for any of the parties...its all coming from the same place increased taxes in one way or another or spending cuts or a combo...the problem is you haven't informed yourself as to where they will get the money from. I haven't read their manifesto but I suspect if I or you did you would find the answer. don't jump on the media bandwagon of "sf don't know their policies, don't have policies, doesn't add up, not costed"...in fairness to them its all the same as any party...this is just a cheap shot. we need to stop taking silly cheap shots and look at facts and look to what might make the country better.


maybe my comment above is an oxymoron - I haven't a clue what I was trying to say..all I know is I want a change of scenery from what we currently have - call it what you like
 
jim said:
maybe my comment above is an oxymoron - I haven't a clue what I was trying to say..all I know is I want a change of scenery from what we currently have - call it what you like
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Fair enough Jim but I suggest that you are looking for an improvement rather than a change. Yes, I will agree with you that SF (who have only relatively recently adopted Left credentials) and/or PPP/AAA will certainly lead to a change of scenery but their proposals to date have never stood up to scrutiny.
Mantras like tax the rich and abolish Irish Water are all very well to propose. However when you scrutinize the implementation of either of these they begin to come apart at the seams.
I can see exactly where you are coming from in respect of the lack of differential between FF/FG/Labour and their inability to realize that they are failing to engage with a substantial portion of the electorate.
If I was to base my voting preference on the performances on last night's debate I would be definitely favoring L Creighton and/or Stephen Donnelly. However until/unless these people can gain significant traction with their parties, they will have no say in Government.
 
44brendan said:
Mantras like tax the rich and abolish Irish Water are all very well to propose. However when you scrutinize the implementation of either of these they begin to come apart at the seams.
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You might be right 44brendan - maybe some of their proposals don't stand up to scrutiny. but maybe some of the other parties proposals don't stand up to scrutiny. who here has really (really!) forensically scrutinised any proposals by anyone? I just think its a weak, media-driven argument that sf policies don't stack up etc etc...I say given them a chance to prove themselves! theyre different, theyre hungry, how much worse can they be than whats already there and potentially they could be a hell of a lot better.not saying vote sf, just saying consider a new alternative be that sf, renua, social democrats etc.

I am tending to vote for people rather than parties and so Donnelly is someone id absolutely vote for. the man is smart, has conviction, knows what he is talking about, is young, ambitious, hungry, in tune with the electorate and most importantly has fresh and logical ideas...and there are others like him.
 
jim said:
I disagree - adams knows his own policies inside out as does any of the leaders which is no big deal that's the minimum you would expect of them. anyone can learn spiel off by heart. adams may be a bit scatter minded when articulating them when on the spot - who cares about that though. I value other things in the person that is going to run my country.
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I value other things in the person who is running the country; Respect for democracy, an understanding of what a republic is, some semblance of honesty, a basic understanding of economics, not having been a member and a leader of a terrorist organisation, not being funded by a terrorist organisation, not having ever regarding the police and armed forces of this country as “fair game”, not being the leader of a party whose members intimidate those that disagree with them. Gerry Adams fails on every count. He is the last person I would like to see running the country.



jim said:
I think FG are right wing (ish) I could be wrong...anyway my point is we need to get rid of fg/labour in gove and get new smart, young, feisty, passionate, authentic (as possible), original ideas people in there.
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We get the parliament we deserve, maybe better than we deserve. As long as we elect independent locally focused TD’s we will never have a good government. The problem is the electorate.




jim said:
I don't like mary lou on a personal level but I think she would be a good person to be involved in running the country - shes got balls and I believe is a lot more honest/authentic than burton who is way past her cell by date and is out of touch....similar to why I want Creighton in there - don't like her but I think shes got the right stuff to be at least in the dail.
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I don’t trust a word any Shinner says. Their economic policies are both daft and dangerous. They would destroy the country.
 
jim said:
I disagree - adams knows his own policies inside out as does any of the leaders which is no big deal that's the minimum you would expect of them. anyone can learn spiel off by heart. adams may be a bit scatter minded when articulating them when on the spot - who cares about that though. I value other things in the person that is going to run my country.



I think FG are right wing (ish) I could be wrong...anyway my point is we need to get rid of fg/labour in gove and get new smart, young, feisty, passionate, authentic (as possible), original ideas people in there.



I don't like mary lou on a personal level but I think she would be a good person to be involved in running the country - shes got balls and I believe is a lot more honest/authentic than burton who is way past her cell by date and is out of touch....similar to why I want Creighton in there - don't like her but I think shes got the right stuff to be at least in the dail.
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So you're saying he does know his party's policies, in his head, but can't share that with the people? Much like his membership of the army council?
 
Purple said:
Gerry Adams fails on every count. He is the last person I would like to see running the country.
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Purple everyone entitled to their opinion and some people would take a different view to you - so be it...

Purple said:
I don’t trust a word any Shinner says. Their economic policies are both daft and dangerous. They would destroy the country.
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again purple you might be correct in this but then again you might not be...sf could be a great change for the country...I trust some individuals over others regardless of their party. some sf, ff, fg, etc I don't trust, likewise some I do.

lets leave IRA thing to the side for the purpose of this discussion. its tired old tripe. lets talk about the future and whats best for Ireland. you've made your views clear that you don't feel SF are the correct choice for the future of the country and that's fine. who knows? maybe theyre worth a chance?
 
jim said:
lets leave IRA thing to the side for the purpose of this discussion. its tired old tripe. lets talk about the future and whats best for Ireland. you've made your views clear that you don't feel SF are the correct choice for the future of the country and that's fine. who knows? maybe theyre worth a chance?
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Among what's best for Ireland is people paying their taxes. In cases where they don't, the book should be thrown at them regardless of how good a republican they are. It's a little scary how Mary Lou was quickly put in her place over that one.
 
jim said:
lets talk about the future and whats best for Ireland. you've made your views clear that you don't feel SF are the correct choice for the future of the country and that's fine. who knows? maybe theyre worth a chance?
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Their distinctly unimpressive record in government in Northern Ireland suggests otherwise.
 
jim said:
lets leave IRA thing to the side for the purpose of this discussion. its tired old tripe. lets talk about the future and whats best for Ireland. you've made your views clear that you don't feel SF are the correct choice for the future of the country and that's fine. who knows? maybe theyre worth a chance?
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I had my desk blown to pieces in the Bishopgate bomb and heard 2 other bombs go off in London when I lived there. I know people impacted by the Warrington bomb, how can you say it's tired old tripe. It's not. Can you look the family of Gerry McCabe in the face and tell them the death of their father was tripe?. That's an absolute bloody disgrace to say that.

It's for statements like that, the inability of Sinn Fein to acknowledge and be open and honest about the past which is why I can currently not even consider voting for them and actively encourage people not to.
 
don't twist my words daddy man where have I said anywhere that murder was tripe. what I said was to constantly bring up the ira when discussing sf is for me very tired old tripe. this is not debate on ira activity. if you want we can set up a separate thread and debate that.
 
Taunting Mary Lou or Fierce Doherty with the IRA may be a bit tired. But for Grizzly it is surely fair game. Grizzly's opposition to the special criminal courts has nothing to do with his passion for civil liberty (goddam he supported kangaroo courts) but is deep rooted in his antipathy to the apparatus of law and order both up there and down here.

The very fact that Grizzly is pals with and respects a man who needs a special criminal court is damning in itself. Mary Lou says people should pay their taxes as if the gentleman in question is simply another Lowry or Mick Wallace. Not so, as the Sindo asserted, in this case the tax is an application of the Al Capone strategy - it is well known that this was all that particular chap could be charged with.

It is really jolly that the main news on election day will be the sentencing of Grizzly's pal. Won't damage their core support of course, but will surely freeze them out of any meaningful transfers from constitutional parties. It would make you wonder "just because SF are paranoid...":D
 
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Whatever we say about Gerry Adams and Sinn Féinn both win in the forthcoming election no matter what the outcome.
1. If they share power in government with (let's say Fine Gael) they are onto a winner.
2. If they are in opposition, it is likely that they will have gained representation and so they still win.

Like it or not Sinn Féinn are here into the distance future (Thank You Fianna Fáil, again you have a lot to answer for!).
 
Ok aside from the ira and all that Jazz and gerrys apparent poor evonomics..whats wrong with sf?

In fairness to sf one of their objectives in a united ireland surely thats a noble ambition if (and its a big if) it can be achieved democratically in due course.
 
So far as I am aware, every single member of the Dail and possibly every single candidate in this election supports a United Ireland so that is hardly a distinguishing feature of SF.
 
Baloney. Sf are the only party that are actively persuing it. Anyone can claim that any td supports anything. Wheres your proof that all tds "support" a united ireland and please define what you mean by support?

I suspect what you mean to say is "all tds would probably like a united ireland and also to win the lotto"
 
And where will SF get the approximate €5 billion subsidy that Westminster currently transfers to NI. We have currently more pressing problems down here at the moment
 
listen the economics of a united ireland is a whole other question and probably renders it unfeasible...but idealogically its a very noble ambition and only sf persue it.
 
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