Request to PTSB for redemption figure on mortgage - 6 business days

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podgerodge

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I rang PTSB to request a redemption figure to clear my mortgage. They said it would take at least 6 business days to issue "to make sure the figures are right" - it's not a biggy, but 1) I would have thought a redemption figure on a mortgage would be a literal push button thing - it's maths after all and 2) 6 business days is potentially 10 full days - attracting interest that I would like to avoid by clearing the debt now.

Not a total moan, but I think they could issue this quicker, seems incredibly slow.
 
I hear you...but within that 10 days, would require sending a cheque for "most" of the outstanding amount, and then messing around for a couple of hundred later? And with cheque clearance times, interest will accrue for a few days anyway - whereas with redemption letter, the amount stated stays static for 20 days. So not sure worth the hassle. Or could do a online swift transfer, but requires going to my branch of my bank as not within transfer allowances.
 
podgerodge said:
I hear you...but within that 10 days, would require sending a cheque for "most" of the outstanding amount, and then messing around for a couple of hundred later? And with cheque clearance times, interest will accrue for a few days anyway - whereas with redemption letter, the amount stated stays static for 20 days. So not sure worth the hassle.
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Your choice.
 
The point I am really making is that it seems crazy to take up to 10 days to issue a redemption figure when their programs should be able to do this instantaneously and send out the next day. Their inefficiency costs money unless you go through an initial payback transaction as T McG suggests.
 
podgerodge said:
The point I am really making is that it seems crazy to take up to 10 days to issue a redemption figure when their programs should be able to do this instantaneously and send out the next day. Their inefficiency costs money unless you go through an initial payback transaction as T McG suggests.
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Given that the concept of a final redemption figure connotes that they have limited if any comeback against the former mortgage holder for any underpayments arising from errors, omissions or frauds in the calculation of the redemption figure, I would consider it very reckless on their part if they were to operate as you suggest in this regard.
 
I would doubt that employees are looking at the outputted figures from systems to make sure it's correct. Otherwise we really do need to worry about the state of their systems! You don't believe that they print these off and then have an employee start working it out with a calculator to make sure it's right do you? (But perhaps that is the case :p)
 
podgerodge said:
I would doubt that employees are looking at the outputted figures from systems to make sure it's correct. Otherwise we really do need to worry about the state of their systems! You don't believe that they print these off and then have an employee start working it out with a calculator to make sure it's right do you? (But perhaps that is the case :p)
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My point stands. At the very least, their procedures would need to incorporate basic anti-fraud protections.
 
podgerodge said:
whereas with redemption letter, the amount stated stays static for 20 days.
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Where are you getting that from?
I seem to remember seeing redemption figures with a paragraph saying that interest will continue to accrue at €48 a day.

I don't see why they would freeze the interest.

Do as Tommy suggests. Check your balance online. Or ask what the balance is. And pay it. Then sort out the details later.

Brendan
 
podgerodge said:
The point I am really making is that it seems crazy to take up to 10 days to issue a redemption figure
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I do agree with this and wonder why it takes so long.
Sure they have to check it and get it authorised and make sure that all the payments in have cleared, but 10 days is a lot.

A solicitor told me that the Irish Nationwide was so bad, that he used to just call in to their Head Office when he wanted a redemption figure and complain that the letter he had sent 10 days ago had not been replied to. (He had sent no letter). There would be a flurry of activity and he would get the redemption figure after a short wait.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Where are you getting that from?
I seem to remember seeing redemption figures with a paragraph saying that interest will continue to accrue at €48 a day.

I don't see why they would freeze the interest.

Do as Tommy suggests. Check your balance online. Or ask what the balance is. And pay it. Then sort out the details later.

Brendan
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Was told by PTSB on the call that the redemption figure would stand for that period. It's what I had assumed also - as how would one know what figure to write the cheque for (unless as you say they expected you to manually add on for each day you delayed, which seems ott?). I would imagine that paying 99.9% of redemption figures to PTSB and then "sorting out the details later" for the small amounts outstanding, would cause chaos for PTSB, hence the logic in the static redemption figure possibly.

Brendan Burgess said:
I do agree with this and wonder why it takes so long.
Sure they have to check it and get it authorised and make sure that all the payments in have cleared, but 10 days is a lot.

A solicitor told me that the Irish Nationwide was so bad, that he used to just call in to their Head Office when he wanted a redemption figure and complain that the letter he had sent 10 days ago had not been replied to. (He had sent no letter). There would be a flurry of activity and he would get the redemption figure after a short wait.

Brendan
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I really don't think they need to "check it and get it authorised", they need to trust their systems. This is 2022. But I take your point on them needing to take into account any in flight transactions that need to settle.
 
podgerodge said:
Was told by PTSB on the call that the redemption figure would stand for that period. It's what I had assumed also - as how would one know what figure to write the cheque for (unless as you say they expected you to manually add on for each day you delayed, which seems ott?)
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Certainly Ulster Bank's letter with a redemption figure says exactly this: you must add on €X in interest for each day that passes between the date of the letter and the date that your solicitor transfers the funds to pay off the mortgage.

podgerodge said:
I really don't think they need to "check it and get it authorised", they need to trust their systems. This is 2022.
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I agree 100% – it's not a difficult calculation: people on this site have been doing it for years. And if PTSB don't have an internal piece of software that does the calculation, that's just insanity.
 
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I once sat in a PTSB branch with a so-called certified financial advisor who couldn't tell me what the interest rate is for the mortgage offer I was just given.
All I could get was the monthly repayment amount.

In my limited experience, there is no limit to the limitations of their systems and/or competency. This is however not limited to PTSB.
 
I was able to get the figure in branch within a few minutes. The advice was to overpay a little because the final part month interest would be added. Then the remainder was sent via cheque.
 
My guess is that they do have an internal tool but either it's not very reliable and/or line staff aren't competent to use it and/or data quality isn't the best. That's why it's probably routed through a central team who can do maths and double check.


@podgerodge if you have the cash and are worried about accruing interest it's almost certainly cheaper to send them a cheque for an amount you are sure will clear the mortgage. They can return any balance to you after the fact.
 
Thanks all. So I got my redemption letter today (Tues 20th Sept). I checked back on my phone calls, and the request was made on Wednesday 14th September in the morning. The letter I received today was DATED 14th Sept (same day as my request) and posted 16th September, and arrived at my house on 20th Sept.

As per what Brendan understood, there was indeed a daily interest accrual figure to "add on from the date of this letter" - approx. €5.50 a day on a €150k outstanding tracker.

It's not that I am worried about the interest - and as others, incl. T Mc Gibney have alluded to, in hindsight, I could have made a lump sum that day for the approx. amount outstanding, and just internet banked the balance later. Had I done that, I could have reduced the daily 5.50 interest to practically zero - but I had rang them, and they said wait for the final figure in the post. Again, they had suggested the figure would remain static for 20 days, but it wasn't! (the letter stated the "quote" was valid for 20 days") I guess that was my mistake, allowing the majority of the balance to remain accruing interest while I waited.

Some things cleared up - PTSB have the capability to generate the outstanding balance immediately (14th Sept call, 14th Sept. letter) - they don't need staff to go off checking it for correctness. But it takes them 2 days to send in the post on Friday 16th - €11 extra cost to me from that delay. Arriving Tuesday 20th Sept, means I have incurred another €5.50 for Sat, Sun and Mon, being a grand total of €26.50 in interest.

I went to my bank branch and paid them the outstanding figure + 2 days interest. Will see how much they push for the other €15. They are culpable for a couple of days for slow posting :) Perhaps they will just debit it as part of my last repayment before they clear it.

Thanks all.
 
podgerodge said:
I checked back on my phone calls, and the request was made on Wednesday 14th September in the morning. The letter I received today was DATED 14th Sept (same day as my request) and posted 16th September, and arrived at my house on 20th Sept.
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There may be inaccuracy through accident or design here.

Postmarks are usually illegible these days and bulk mailed items don't have them.

Most likely it takes them two working days to process but they can claim to customers that it issued on date of telephone query .

Anyway you're mortgage free - well done!
 
Just on this, funds left my current account with AIB 2 days ago, nothing showing on my PTSB mortgage account yet, you'd think 2 business days would suffice.

I rang PTSB main line to get through to their mortgage area - 35 minutes later on hold, I get through - to the "overflow area" - who inform me that they just handle calls that don't get through to the area you want to get through. I say "well put me back on hold with mortgages" and they say "can't do that, you'll have to ring again". What a service!

More out of curiosity I rang again and this time selected "if you have arrears you need to discuss" - that disconnected me each time I tried.

Then I rang another "if you're in trouble with your mortgage" line - got through to them - they said no payment received, but generally payments should be applied "within a few days".

2022 banking!
 
podgerodge said:
they had suggested the figure would remain static for 20 days,
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I think I see where the confusion is.

Banks charge interest on the outstanding balance every day.
But they only add the interest to the balance once a month.
So they probably meant that the account balance and daily interest charge wouldn't change.

Brendan
 
3 business days later since my same day value payment, and PTSB have not updated my mortgage balance. Psychologically annoying more than anything - it's IBAN to IBAN in 2022. They'd better not be accruing interest still!
 
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