New Central Heating System - how much should I budget?

B

buyingabroad

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Hi all,

We have storage heaters currently in our 4 bed semi and want to upgrade to a gas fired system.

We will be installing pipework, 15 rads, high eff boiler and a new hot water cyclinder as well.

What would be a reasonable amount to pay for this?

Installation shouldn't be too difficult as easy access to floor boards to run copper pipes.

Thanks for the help.

B.
 
Depends on where you are located. They won't use copper pipes under floor boards, they will be plastic. Joists shouldn't be notched but drilled, so plastic pipe is better to use.
 
In Limerick, you could probably do it for between €6000 - €7000, depending on proposed meter location. In Dublin it will no doubt, cost a few shillings more.
 
I'd agree with Davy, anything between 6 and 8k but watch out for cheap materials and boiler and make sure they don't use that dreadfull "garden hose type" plastic pipe connected directly up your radiators and hot water cylinder. That pipe needs to be hidden at all costs!!
 
Thanks everyone for your help here. Two quotes received last week - one for €10k and the other €13k. My price expectation up to now was max €9k. The €13k price has all the automated controls for programming the various zones. Bit of a gap isn't there....

The €10k includes a Bosch Worcester CDI boiler. The €13k includes a glowworm. Any views on these?

villa 1 said:
That pipe needs to be hidden at all costs!!
Click to expand...

Don't understand what pipes you are talking about here, sorry. How do I check this out?
 
Presume villa1 means qualpex.

Push for a copper plumb through out. We have come across qualpex pipe in refurbishments, weeping around joints, speedi fittings used - leaking. These can weep long after your plumber is gone.

If your joist runs allow I would recommend plumbing is soldered joints and air pressure tested before commissioning. If you are troubled with joists and bridging use qualpex in complete runs, no joints hidden in the floor or inaccessible positions. You can use copper tails to the radiators, you can leave access to the floor void under the radiators.

Both would be considered good boilers, make sure output rating is high enough to handle the requirements of the house comfortably.
 
Bear in mind you need to use a certified installer and you should check with Bord Gais that whoever you use is

Secondly you should also check your insulation and see if it can be improved,
 
Sconhome said:
Presume villa1 means qualpex.

Push for a copper plumb through out. We have come across qualpex pipe in refurbishments, weeping around joints, speedi fittings used - leaking. These can weep long after your plumber is gone.

If your joist runs allow I would recommend plumbing is soldered joints and air pressure tested before commissioning. If you are troubled with joists and bridging use qualpex in complete runs, no joints hidden in the floor or inaccessible positions. You can use copper tails to the radiators, you can leave access to the floor void under the radiators.

Both would be considered good boilers, make sure output rating is high enough to handle the requirements of the house comfortably.
Click to expand...

Qualpex, if used correctly is the best method, soldering copper is going to push the cost of the job through the roof. I dislike plastic fittings and always use compression brass fittings on plastic pipe.

Plastic pipe will never corrode, is faster and easier to install and cheaper than copper all round.
 
would also like to add, from your listed quotes:

the Worster CDI boilers are excellenton all fronts
won't even dignify the Gloworm with a response!
 
Pros Qualpex Ideal for hidden work, can be run easily between drilled floor joists, less joints. Will not corrode if in contact with soft acidic well water. Cuts labour costs. Unqualified handymen love it. Cheaper than copper, lightweight and fairly robust in comparison to copper. Less problems with water hammer.

Cons Qualpex, if installed incorrectly will break down and leak, eg, radius bends too tight, pipe kinking, twisting between fittings. I've seen this type of pipe connected directly to boilers and even directyly off solid fuel stoves! Ouch!!These types of polyetylene, polybutylene plastic pipes have rendered many domestic plumbers totally inadequate when it comes to skillfull tasks like boiler house, hot press, and surface pipework. This pipe served the "tiger lash it in mentality" well. It's now time to insist on quality work. This type of pipe can, if incorrectly installed, cause constant airlocking problems if used on low pressure gravity supply systems.
 
DGOBS said:
would also like to add, from your listed quotes:

the Worster CDI boilers are excellenton all fronts
won't even dignify the Gloworm with a response!
Click to expand...


What do you think of Viessmann?. A client insisted on one, comissioned it today and have to say, I am impressed. two flows and two returns form boiler. Primary circuit can be run at a higher temp for a shorter time, with cylinder stat wired directly back to it.
 
villa 1 said:
Pros Qualpex Ideal for hidden work, can be run easily between drilled floor joists, less joints. Will not corrode if in contact with soft acidic well water. Cuts labour costs. Unqualified handymen love it. Cheaper than copper, lightweight and fairly robust in comparison to copper. Less problems with water hammer.

Cons Qualpex, if installed incorrectly will break down and leak, eg, radius bends too tight, pipe kinking, twisting between fittings. I've seen this type of pipe connected directly to boilers and even directyly off solid fuel stoves! Ouch!!These types of polyetylene, polybutylene plastic pipes have rendered many domestic plumbers totally inadequate when it comes to skillfull tasks like boiler house, hot press, and surface pipework. This pipe served the "tiger lash it in mentality" well. It's now time to insist on quality work. This type of pipe can, if incorrectly installed, cause constant airlocking problems if used on low pressure gravity supply systems.
Click to expand...

They are all interesting and fair points. this probably needs a thread of it's own but the amount of repairs we carry out on new installations is shocking, not just because a pipe is untidy but major system faults. And if you start adding in things like back boilers/stoves, you can forget about it.

I think the modern apprenticeship is good, I went through it myself, It does beg the question when the standard can be so low.

Another point on plastic pipe, when it heats, it gets wavey, no matter how well it is clipped. thats way you don't want it where it will be seen.
 
Not trying to move away from this genuine question, but i've done a lot of research into this problem.The reason for such large amounts of shoddy/incorrect workmanship has been caused by the general lack of apprentice training undertaken by employers during the tiger era. First year apprentices were trained by 2nd year apprentices and so on. Apprentices, especially in the domestic house building industry recieved most of their ""on the job training" from unqualified fellow apprentices. With little or no experience these apprentices were expected to install vartying types of work without the guidance of qualified craftsmen. " It does'nt matter what it looks like as long as water comes out of it".
Most apprentices/craftsmen are proud of their work but in many cases they did not get enough time to produce quality work. Builders and developers are the real villans. Gret it done and move on.
 
DavyJones said:
What do you think of Viessmann?. A client insisted on one, comissioned it today and have to say, I am impressed. two flows and two returns form boiler. Primary circuit can be run at a higher temp for a shorter time, with cylinder stat wired directly back to it.
Click to expand...

DavyJones, the plumber I use is raving about Viessmann and we are starting to spec them into our renovation works as an option on the Worchester system.
 
help! advice on heating system needed. have decided on 2 solid fuel stoves+back boilers. space is 2,000 sq. ft, single storey; will also fit solar.question is how to heat the space without using rad.s? geo is too expensive. had thought of ufh but experts directly contradict each other on compatibility with stoves. house will be close to passive and advice on ventilation is also contradictory. hrv seems expensive too. i need a simple system!
 
feileacan said:
help! advice on heating system needed. have decided on 2 solid fuel stoves+back boilers. space is 2,000 sq. ft, single storey; will also fit solar.question is how to heat the space without using rad.s? geo is too expensive. had thought of ufh but experts directly contradict each other on compatibility with stoves. house will be close to passive and advice on ventilation is also contradictory. hrv seems expensive too. i need a simple system!
Click to expand...

Underfloor is your only man here,combine this with 2 solid fuel stoves is an ideal system provided their installed correctly and your not shy about feeding the stoves!!!

Yes it can be done!!!successfully

Combined with solar its a beautyful job

Heafty enough capital outlay required.
 
feileacan said:
help! advice on heating system needed. have decided on 2 solid fuel stoves+back boilers. space is 2,000 sq. ft, single storey; will also fit solar.question is how to heat the space without using rad.s? geo is too expensive. had thought of ufh but experts directly contradict each other on compatibility with stoves. house will be close to passive and advice on ventilation is also contradictory. hrv seems expensive too. i need a simple system!
Click to expand...
Whoever you get to install this system make sure that they are familiar with dual open vented systems coupled up to a solar hot water system. Many plumbers in this country have no clue as to how to install a dual system of central heating let alone linking two open vented solid fuel stoves together.
I hope that one /two of these stoves is running regularly as if not it will take forever to get the heat up in your floor area. Be carefull installing underfloor insisting on proper controlling for independant rooms and consideration into heat gains and outside temperatures. This system is not as straightforward as previously stated.
 
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