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z107
Guest
Is it possible to bypass the PRTB (who are just for tenants) and use your own solicitor?
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emma09
Guest
But then I would need to pay Solicitors?? 
Z
z107
Guest
Well maybe you should just sell up then.
Renting a house should be like running a business. Both have overheads, compliance costs and hassle.
Renting a house should be like running a business. Both have overheads, compliance costs and hassle.
Hi Emma 09, I think I saw a thread somewhere here where you can request your bank statements under freedom of information and get them free of charge.
Seriously Emma, I don't mean to be condescending but I dont think you can really afford this property. The masses who bought investment properties during the bubble are really being stung at the moment. For many I guess it was a very unwise decision.
I would cut my losses here and come to some arrangement to pay up. On the plus side you got three years of good rent for the property. You can write the loss off to tax so in effect you are not that bad off. This moves the monkey off your back in terms of stress. You have the deposit of the new tenant to give to them at this stage.
alaskaonline
Registered User
- Messages
- 489
I would agree regarding the solicitor point someone made here. I understand you can't afford it but maybe your situation falls under the Free Legal Aid Service? Not sure but worth checking out before dismissing it.
2nd) you should be able to get the necessary bank statements for the time frame this tenant lived in your property. If it costs a few bobs, then so it'll be - it's worth it, I think.
3rd) police report. If tenant was reported, the Gards have it on file and can give you a copy or reference number.
Did you do all this at this stage? I've seen you opened your threat in September. At the end of the day (I'm trying not to be too naive here), the PRTB would have to show you proof before demanding the money - did they show you any documents proving the old tenants points/argument? Surely they can't act on hear' say?
For the time being regarding the new tenant - don't be so foolish again by not filing up all useful legal documents such as bank statements, rent contracts, termination agreements etc.!
2nd) you should be able to get the necessary bank statements for the time frame this tenant lived in your property. If it costs a few bobs, then so it'll be - it's worth it, I think.
3rd) police report. If tenant was reported, the Gards have it on file and can give you a copy or reference number.
Did you do all this at this stage? I've seen you opened your threat in September. At the end of the day (I'm trying not to be too naive here), the PRTB would have to show you proof before demanding the money - did they show you any documents proving the old tenants points/argument? Surely they can't act on hear' say?
For the time being regarding the new tenant - don't be so foolish again by not filing up all useful legal documents such as bank statements, rent contracts, termination agreements etc.!
In your first post you referred to paying part of the deposit back. Now you are saying no deposit was paid ?. A tenant is entitled to prompt return of all or part of the deposit and the PRTB can rule for compensation to be paid if this is not done. You said you left things for a few months so you walked yourself in to this.
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emma09
Guest
Ok, I will start again.
We got original Tenant but didnt realise that original Tenant was sub-letting to this Tenant we are having dispute with.
Current Tenant had dispute with the original tenant and the original Tenant wanted to leave... and we gave him his deposit back. This guy was his sub-tenant... and we didnt get any deposit from him. We never had that on the paper. It is our own stupidity we never changed that on the lease.
The current tenant told us that he wants to rent the place with his friend and wife/girlfriend and if its OK for him to keep couple of extra guys. We said.. naively.. OK.. as long as we are getting the Rent plus the house is kept clean.
At some stage he did make a fuss about not giving him an up-to-date lease document with correct names but we argued, we couldn't keep up with guys coming and staying with you for 2-3 months at a time... so, we left the lease with people staying with him the first year. We neve amended and copied and signed each year with original names.. our fault.. I know. But things were OK .. he was fine about it..
He told us. .he gets the deposit from the guys .... and its really helps him pay the rent. We were OK with that. Never questioned .. how much he was getting.. as we were "not being greedy"... we thought we were being nice to him!
He lost his job. Feel sorry for him. He couldnt keep up the payments and his friends/sub-tenants left the country and he was left to pay the rent all by himself.
Things were tight for us too. All he had to do was talk to us and speak about reducing rent or tell us, he wanted to vacate and get a cheaper property. Everything would have been OK. Its just so frustrating, just because he is a tenant he can walk paying us ONLY HALF of the last month's rent he was there. And now is expecting us to give him the Deposit which HE NEVER GAVE US.
Not only that, now PRTB are asking him to pay extra 300 for compensation.. .for what>?
We did not evict him. He wanted to leave. We asked him to give us some time before we can fix the place plus find another Tenant. He didnt even wait until the month to leave. He left within 2-3 days. Now he is claiming we evicted him. He has no paper-proof of that. It was only verbal discussion. But PRTB are telling us that we were wrong to do that as he was our tenant for 3years.. he should have been given longer notice.. something like.. 84 days.. I think. We didnt give him notice. He asked to leave. He left within 2-3 days. But now we are at fault?????
If I could sell.. I would. The place is in minus 150K. I dont have the funds to make up this kind of negative equity.
Yes, I have learnt my lesson the hard way. Next time, a tenant will be a tenant and not a friend and will not be let away with small damages to MY PROPERTY. It will be strictly business.. all in paper. Yes, I was naive and that is the only thing I am guilty of.
I gave new bedsheets / new dishes / new cutlery. His microwave broke. Gave him a new one - even though not in contract. He wanted couple of lamps.. gave him that. Never questioned - just thought, he is nice guy and talks to us nicely and generally has the house clean. Lets keep him happy! Gave him drinks/choclate for xmas and everything. And he stole our tree the last year he was there.... how mean was that??????
We got original Tenant but didnt realise that original Tenant was sub-letting to this Tenant we are having dispute with.
Current Tenant had dispute with the original tenant and the original Tenant wanted to leave... and we gave him his deposit back. This guy was his sub-tenant... and we didnt get any deposit from him. We never had that on the paper. It is our own stupidity we never changed that on the lease.
The current tenant told us that he wants to rent the place with his friend and wife/girlfriend and if its OK for him to keep couple of extra guys. We said.. naively.. OK.. as long as we are getting the Rent plus the house is kept clean.
At some stage he did make a fuss about not giving him an up-to-date lease document with correct names but we argued, we couldn't keep up with guys coming and staying with you for 2-3 months at a time... so, we left the lease with people staying with him the first year. We neve amended and copied and signed each year with original names.. our fault.. I know. But things were OK .. he was fine about it..
He told us. .he gets the deposit from the guys .... and its really helps him pay the rent. We were OK with that. Never questioned .. how much he was getting.. as we were "not being greedy"... we thought we were being nice to him!
He lost his job. Feel sorry for him. He couldnt keep up the payments and his friends/sub-tenants left the country and he was left to pay the rent all by himself.
Things were tight for us too. All he had to do was talk to us and speak about reducing rent or tell us, he wanted to vacate and get a cheaper property. Everything would have been OK. Its just so frustrating, just because he is a tenant he can walk paying us ONLY HALF of the last month's rent he was there. And now is expecting us to give him the Deposit which HE NEVER GAVE US.
Not only that, now PRTB are asking him to pay extra 300 for compensation.. .for what>?
We did not evict him. He wanted to leave. We asked him to give us some time before we can fix the place plus find another Tenant. He didnt even wait until the month to leave. He left within 2-3 days. Now he is claiming we evicted him. He has no paper-proof of that. It was only verbal discussion. But PRTB are telling us that we were wrong to do that as he was our tenant for 3years.. he should have been given longer notice.. something like.. 84 days.. I think. We didnt give him notice. He asked to leave. He left within 2-3 days. But now we are at fault?????
If I could sell.. I would. The place is in minus 150K. I dont have the funds to make up this kind of negative equity.
Yes, I have learnt my lesson the hard way. Next time, a tenant will be a tenant and not a friend and will not be let away with small damages to MY PROPERTY. It will be strictly business.. all in paper. Yes, I was naive and that is the only thing I am guilty of.
I gave new bedsheets / new dishes / new cutlery. His microwave broke. Gave him a new one - even though not in contract. He wanted couple of lamps.. gave him that. Never questioned - just thought, he is nice guy and talks to us nicely and generally has the house clean. Lets keep him happy! Gave him drinks/choclate for xmas and everything. And he stole our tree the last year he was there.... how mean was that??????
As soon as you start changing the story you start losing credibility. All this is just not important however. The only question really is, will going the legal route and challenging the PRTB and the tenant be cheaper than paying off the tenant.
Though for €40 I think its well worth appealing it back to the PRTB. But get someone else to explain it to them. Because your explanation is very unclear, and full of unnecessary details.
Though for €40 I think its well worth appealing it back to the PRTB. But get someone else to explain it to them. Because your explanation is very unclear, and full of unnecessary details.
I agree that the explanation is unclear and hard to understand. However, from what I can figure out, the deposit amount was written in the lease and remained there after the change of tenants, even though the second tenant did NOT pay any deposit. So, in other words, the tenant did not pay the deposit but his lease said he did. If this is so, I don't see much point appealing to PRTB - all the tenant has to do is show his lease (with the words "deposit of x amount to be returned at the end of the tenancy"), which is presumably what he did show to the PRTB already.
300 euro that the PRTB demands as compensation for the tenant doesn't seem worth fighting about to me, it seems easier to pay it and be glad the PRTB don't demand anything higher.
After all, the tenant could have just stopped paying rent and stayed in the house for up to 2 years, before he could be evicted
Compared to that, what happens seems a relatively minor issue. By the way, the important thing now is to register the current tenancy with the PRTB (if it is not already done) - otherwise the interest on the mortgage is not tax-deductible.
alaskaonline
Registered User
- Messages
- 489
OP - just for understanding purposes:
The main tenant paid deposit
the sub tenant did not pay deposit
the main tenant is on the contract
the sub tenant is not on the contract (due to constant changes)
the sub tenant left and wants a deposit back, correct?
The main tenant paid deposit
the sub tenant did not pay deposit
the main tenant is on the contract
the sub tenant is not on the contract (due to constant changes)
the sub tenant left and wants a deposit back, correct?
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emma09
Guest
Main Tenant = A
Sub Tenant = B
Main tenant (A) paid the deposit and subletted (without our knowledge/permission) to Sub Tenant (B).
A & B both had arguement and Main Tenant (A ) Left.
We paid back the deposit to Main Tenant (A) and kept the sub-tenant (B) with us without taking any deposit.
Sub-Tenant (B) was put on Contract - but he further sub-letted and constantly changed.
Now Sub-Tenant (B) - who never paid deposit ... but has his name on the contract - wants the deposit back - but he never gave us anything.
He tells us that he gave the Deposit to Main Tenant (A) , but we paid him back originally.
Our fault, when we re-did the Lease, we forgot to DELETE the deposit part of the lease and left it as it was for the Main Tenant (A).
I know its our word against his.. but its still not fair.
I agree with some other posters, that it is our fault. We should have kept paper work in order. I am afraid, if we appeal, we may end up paying even more damage costs.
But my problem at the moment is.. we cannot afford to pay 1500 Euros.
What we are planning to do is.. offer PRTB 20Eur a month for next year or two or more... I dont care... if they accept it.. fine... if not.. .tough.
If they bring us to court.. they will reallise, we genuinely don't have any money left with us after paying... mortgages and bills etc.
But I cannot afford more than 20Euros.. lets see what they say to our proposal.
Sub Tenant = B
Main tenant (A) paid the deposit and subletted (without our knowledge/permission) to Sub Tenant (B).
A & B both had arguement and Main Tenant (A ) Left.
We paid back the deposit to Main Tenant (A) and kept the sub-tenant (B) with us without taking any deposit.
Sub-Tenant (B) was put on Contract - but he further sub-letted and constantly changed.
Now Sub-Tenant (B) - who never paid deposit ... but has his name on the contract - wants the deposit back - but he never gave us anything.
He tells us that he gave the Deposit to Main Tenant (A) , but we paid him back originally.
Our fault, when we re-did the Lease, we forgot to DELETE the deposit part of the lease and left it as it was for the Main Tenant (A).
I know its our word against his.. but its still not fair.
I agree with some other posters, that it is our fault. We should have kept paper work in order. I am afraid, if we appeal, we may end up paying even more damage costs.
But my problem at the moment is.. we cannot afford to pay 1500 Euros.
What we are planning to do is.. offer PRTB 20Eur a month for next year or two or more... I dont care... if they accept it.. fine... if not.. .tough.
If they bring us to court.. they will reallise, we genuinely don't have any money left with us after paying... mortgages and bills etc.
But I cannot afford more than 20Euros.. lets see what they say to our proposal.
Emma, it won't help you to dwell on what is "fair" and what isn't. It's not merely your word against the tenant's (tenant B) - he has it IN WRITING in the lease that you also signed that you hold his deposit. While he may be dishonest, you have been very careless, and this is the price you have to pay for it.
It doesn't seem wise to let the PRTB bring you to court - as you will be faced with legal costs then. If the PRTB doesn't accept your offer of 20 euro per month (I'd be surprised if they did, but I don't really know much about their practices), you'd be better off trying to raise the required amount somehow and pay them. Can you not borrow it - maybe from a credit union, bank loan, overdraft?
It is usually possible for people to survive when their income reduces by more than 20 euro per month. Maybe you'll benefit from filling out the questionnaire in the "Makeover" section of this forum, to see where you could make savings.
And do get hold of 70 euro to register the new tenancy with the PRTB!
At the moment my feeling is that you are still dwelling on the "not fair" issue, rather than going all out to find the required money, pay up and put this behind you.
While I appreciate that finding this money is really hard for you at the moment, you only have to read some other threads on this forum to realise that things could have been much much worse for you.
It doesn't seem wise to let the PRTB bring you to court - as you will be faced with legal costs then. If the PRTB doesn't accept your offer of 20 euro per month (I'd be surprised if they did, but I don't really know much about their practices), you'd be better off trying to raise the required amount somehow and pay them. Can you not borrow it - maybe from a credit union, bank loan, overdraft?
It is usually possible for people to survive when their income reduces by more than 20 euro per month. Maybe you'll benefit from filling out the questionnaire in the "Makeover" section of this forum, to see where you could make savings.
And do get hold of 70 euro to register the new tenancy with the PRTB!
At the moment my feeling is that you are still dwelling on the "not fair" issue, rather than going all out to find the required money, pay up and put this behind you.
While I appreciate that finding this money is really hard for you at the moment, you only have to read some other threads on this forum to realise that things could have been much much worse for you.
I would agree with Greta, that you would be better off borrowing the money and putting a line under this.
The PRTB are unlikely to accept a claim of inability to pay, particularly on the money related to the supposed deposit.
They have accepted his assertion that he gave you the deposit. Therefore, you should still have that money available, as it wouldn't be yours to spend. Not having it would lead to questions around why you have spent the tenant's money, which you were holding in trust.
That he didn't give you a deposit and you have to find the cash from your own funds is very unfortunate, but not something they are likely to entertain.
The PRTB are unlikely to accept a claim of inability to pay, particularly on the money related to the supposed deposit.
They have accepted his assertion that he gave you the deposit. Therefore, you should still have that money available, as it wouldn't be yours to spend. Not having it would lead to questions around why you have spent the tenant's money, which you were holding in trust.
That he didn't give you a deposit and you have to find the cash from your own funds is very unfortunate, but not something they are likely to entertain.