Landlord Rights? - PRTB Dispute

E

emma09

Guest
We got tenants in 2005. As we were first time Landlords, didn't really knew how the system worked.

We found out 3-4 months later that Tenants were sub-lettting. Our property was well looked after and they seem nice people so we didnt say much.

Then tenants had arguements with each other and one of them left and another guy took over - so we had him as "main person" as point of contact for paying rent / bill etc.

Everything fine for next 2 years. We increased the rent every year as whatever the going rate was that time.

Everything OK. Fast Forward to June 2009. We got Reduced Rent (about €400 less) from the Tenant in our Bank Account for the month.

Few days later arranged to meet up at the house and speak to the Tenant. He had lots of papers infront of him. He had been touch with Social Welfare / Healthboard. He was really aggressive. His wife standing in one corner - speaking in her language to the husband. Both were very aggressive towards me and my husband.

Anyway, tried to ask what happened. If everything OK. they told us we were Greedy, Liars, taking too much money off them. and called us all sorts of names. I was pregnant at the time, I got very upset and cried ( I know, I shouldnt have!) Anyway, we asked what happened? We were prepared to be flexible with the rent - and had realised finances for people had changed quite a bit for everyone in 2009 - including my husband, who had lost Job since January of 2009.

After, we all calmed down, the Tenant told us that he had lost Job in January 2009 and the rest of the tenants (whom he was subletting, had gone back to their country - Eastern european). We said, OK, we understand, why you are upset. Lets talk on mutually agreeable figure. He started shouting again!

We tried to reason with them, that they had a lease agreement with us and strictly speaking cannot do anything about it. The agreement was from January 2009 - January 2010.

We explained, we are paying Fixed Interest Rate mortgage - a much higher rate than a lot of people paying in 2009, but we couldnt do anything as we had agreement with our Bank.

They didnt wanted to hear anything and wanted to terminate the contract. I thought, we had good realtionship with the Tenants and since they are not happy with the Rent and things are tight for them.. lets agree on finishing this agreement and asked them if they wanted to vacate? and they said YES. So, we said, give us sometime before we can find another Tenant to replace them. So, we both agreed, verbally for the end of the month - 30th June. It was first week of June, when we spoke.

They left within 2-3 days and left the keys with neighbours. Later on, few months later, we got a call from Threshold telling us that we need to pay him back Deposit? My husband tried explaining to them what happened and that we were left without Tenants for few weeks - had to clean up the place as they left the place in a mess and few things broken. They didn't wanted to hear this and told us about Tenants Rights.

My husband half heartdly agreed to paying part of the Deposit back on condition that we wanted to speak to the Tenant Face-to-Face - it never happened. In the meantime, we have had our own financial problems and to be honest, we left it and didnt hear from them for the last few months.

Today, we got a letter from PRTB asking us to attend a "Hearing" and we are both worried sick about this. I cannot believe this is happeneing to us. We tried our best to look after this Tenant. He was so nice and polite in the first couple of years. Always offered us cup of tea.. drink etc.. and all of a sudden due to difficulty paying in rent - he has turned completely opposite. We know we haven't done anything wrong. We were prepared to lower down the Rent, as everyone was doing in middle of 2009. We did not ask him to leave the house in 2-3 days ( he obviously had planned it). Now we are being told that we are the guilty party.

The only thing we are guilty of is that we do not have any paper proof of all this.

I can't find any bank statements to prove that he didnt pay us the full amount in the last month.

We paid for PRTB in the first couple of years but we didnt pay in 2009 - quite frankly we did not have the money. All the rent money went towards paying for Mortgage/insurance misc. costs etc.

Now, we are going to be prosecuted for not paying for PRTB - who we all know is there to offer help to TENANTS and not to Landlords.
Its all such a mess.

What can we do?


Ted his deposit back.
 
Do not worry. Obviously your tenant has brought a case against you withe the PRTB for witholding their deposit.
Ok a couple of questions.
1. Did you have a new lease created and signed each year ?
2. You should get copies of the bank statements from your bank proving the payments that were made to your account.
3. Did you have the tenancy registered with the PRTB - if so you should have a regsitration document.

Once you have all of the documents collected together go to the letter you have received from the PRTB and you will see that as part of it is your chance to put your side of the story to the PRTB.

Your old tenants will receive a copy of all the documents you send into the PRTB
and you will be given a chance to attend a hearing at which both sides can give their side of the story. A couple of months later the adjudicator will make his determination and both parties at that stage can appeal to the board of the PRTB.

All of this can take upto 12/18 months depending on various factors outside of your control.

Best thing though is to collect together all of documents you can that relate to this tenancy / deposit issue.
 
thanks.

But you see, that's where the problem is. I do not have papers with me. I should be able to find Lease agreements which were signed each year - January of each year.

I have tried to find bank statements but cannot find anything going back May/June last year. When I rang the bank, they are charging us a lot of money for duplicate statements. They only have facility to go back 6months online.

I am hoping that the board will take our word against the Tenants. As even they wouldn't have any other papers - same as us. Lease agreement.

We did not TERMINATE the contract in writing. I hope this will work in our favour? But I am not sure, as PRTB seems to work for Tenants and also, the fact we didn't pay for their services last year... it may go against us..
so worried...
 
Unfortunately, if you didn't pay for their services last year the tenancy was not registered, were you paying all the other costs associated with legally calling yourself a landlord? I understand registration fees are high but the whole point of registering with the PRTB is for help in these kind of situations, where things go wrong between tenant and landlord. I hope that if you are currently renting out the property that you are doing everything by the book.

I would suggest that you pay to get duplicate statements for the relevant months. A reduced rent repayment and no notification of this to you as landlord will work in your favour and may result in a decision in your favour.

As far as I know, their word and your word don't come into, the PRTB will make decisions based on the facts that are available to them so that is why you should try your best to get the statements.
 
Why can't you get a bank statement for the month (or week) that the reduced rent was lodged? You may have to pay a few euros for it - but shouldn't be much for a specified short period.
 
Thanks again. Well, we didnt pay for PRTB again this year. We just do not have the spare money. Every month, I am counting my cents for doing grocries and paying mortgage, life / health insurance etc... I have been saying since the start of this year.. anytime, I have spare cash, I must pay for PRTB.. but I never have funds to give them the cheque.

Again, if PRTB is there to help both Landlord and Tenants than half the money should be given by Tenants and the other half by Landlord as difficulties can arise from both sides. Anyway, that's another arguement...

the fact is that we did not give anything in writing to terminate. We got reduced rent without any knowledge and we were left short of few hundered euros in June 2009.

Tenants were agressive. They did bit of damage and took few small things.. cups/plates etc... with them. They took our Xmas tree with them.

They left the keys with neighbours and left us - from where I see, we do not owe them anything. It took us few weeks.. nearly a month to get another Tenant and get the property back in order to rent out again.

The Tenant made abusive phone calls and left messages on my husband's voice mail My husband went to Garda Station and reported that, hopefully they will have some record of this and PRTB will look into this.

I hate conflicts... and at the moment, still worried, if they want us to pay the Tenant. We do not have the money......
 
Had you registered these tenants prior to 2009 as from briefly reading your post, they seem to be rolling tenants.

If so, the PRTB only needs to be paid every 4 years if it is with the same tenants (you should have notified them when the others moved out, but you don't have to pay for this if some of the original tenants remain)

Get as much of the paperwork togeather as possible.

I have in in my lease if ANY of the tenants move out or new ones move in, they must notify me immediately, but I still get people swapping around, can be hard to stay on top of especially if you have no real need to be in the house on any sort of regular basis.
 
Thanks again. Well, we didnt pay for PRTB again this year. We just do not have the spare money. Every month, I am counting my cents for doing grocries and paying mortgage, life / health insurance etc... I have been saying since the start of this year.. anytime, I have spare cash, I must pay for PRTB.. but I never have funds to give them the cheque.

Again, if PRTB is there to help both Landlord and Tenants than half the money should be given by Tenants and the other half by Landlord as difficulties can arise from both sides. Anyway, that's another arguement...

the fact is that we did not give anything in writing to terminate. We got reduced rent without any knowledge and we were left short of few hundered euros in June 2009.

Tenants were agressive. They did bit of damage and took few small things.. cups/plates etc... with them. They took our Xmas tree with them.

They left the keys with neighbours and left us - from where I see, we do not owe them anything. It took us few weeks.. nearly a month to get another Tenant and get the property back in order to rent out again.

The Tenant made abusive phone calls and left messages on my husband's voice mail My husband went to Garda Station and reported that, hopefully they will have some record of this and PRTB will look into this.

I hate conflicts... and at the moment, still worried, if they want us to pay the Tenant. We do not have the money......

Tenants are already paying rent, in most cases rent is ridiculously high (even in the current climate), and on top of that to be expected to pay prtb fees is unrealistic. You have the privilege of owning two properties (I assume you own two properties and are not renting a property out and living in rented accommodation yourselves) if you can't afford the legalities that go with being a landlord then don't rent it out, simple.

I wouldn't worry too much, get the statements, get something from the gardai in relation to the report you made, give the PRTB as much information as possible. Just be up front and honest, that's all you can do. May I ask what you did with the deposit when you found out the house was empty?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sam H - is that right that we dont have to pay PRTB for 4 years? I didnt know that. We paid the first year.. but after that..the same Tenants with us for 3.5 years?
So, am I OK with not paying PRTB when I still had the same Tenants?

Can you confirm this, please.

Thanks
 
SamH is correct once you register a tenancy you do not have to re register it again for another 4 years assuming the same tenants are living there. If there have been changes in the tenants names you are supposed to inform the PRTB of the changes (without paying an additional fee)
 
Thanks. I am not sure who exactly was on the Lease when we first rented out as my husband dealt with the guys (Tenants). Will check and let PRTB know.

Another problem.!!


Can anyone tell me who pays for this damage. Our new tenant.. have accidentally broken washing machine door!

We got a text message over the weekend telling us that washing machine door wouldn't open. Next day my husband went to have a look and the guy had actually broken the door by pulling it too hard.

He is a young guy and didn't realise you had to wait for couple of minutes after the wash cycle - before you open the door!

Now, we are left with another expense of repairing? or are we?

This does not come under normal wear & tear??

Any suggestions, please
 
poor fellow should leave his laundry to his mother--- i'd expect him to pay for the damage-- what would happen if he accidentally broke a window--
 
Last edited:
I think it is the tenant's place to pay up but the deduction should be made from his deposit as this is why deposits are provided.

I would wonder what you plan to do if tenant disputes paying for the broken door, as you've said before you're not registered with the PRTB.
 
Pixibean... I dont know what I will do. We got these Tenants through Estate Agents.. hopefully they will speak to him and will get it sorted out for us. I am guessing this is his first Tenancy and maybe he will listen to the Estate Agent.. and own up to his mistake? Wishful thinking on my part!!

Anyone know of any good & CHEAP repair guy?!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Deposits shouldn't be used mid tenancy IMO, only at the end. I'd make the tenant pay the bill. Unless it was a fantastic tenant, then I'd pay for it to keep them happy. use common sense.
 
Last time door broke on our washing machine I ordered the hinge from the web via UK cost about €20 and I fitted it in about 30 mins.
 
could u pm me the name of the website, please? I would have thought it would cost us more than that... ??
 
I'd have to look at home. I just search for on the machines model name and door hinge or similar. I assume they all wouldn't be the same price or as easily
 
Ok, I am back to the original problem.

We attended the hearing with the Tenant.

We got a letter today telling us not only we owe them deposit (even though he never paid us deposit), we also owe him 300 euros in damages?? Damages for what?

He rang us and threatened us.
He stole things from our property.
He damaged the property.
He left without handing us the key.

Now, PRTB are saying if we want to appeal this decision, WE NEED TO PAY 40Euros for this service. What the.... ???

Seriously, I do not have 10 euros spare at the moment and now they are expecting us to pay 40Euros to appeal the decision? If again, they take Tenant's side.. we will end up paying for more damages....

What do I do now?
 
Back
Top