Electric Car Value Trade In. Please Help

Angus said:
True but the EV stories are very worrying. I am waiting to move from ICE to PHEV or EV or whatever. If I had bought the ID4 as planned last year I would be nursing a loss of €22K which is unsustainable for a normal person. If the EVs go like Mobile Phones or Computers then when does one buy, the investmanet is huge unlile a mobile phone. My depreciation on the ICE is €4-5 per year so I don't have the answer and putting off the decison.
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Putting off the decision was a good idea. I did the same last year. The VW prices made no sense, I was looking at the ID4 as well, decided I'd wait and see what happens.

I did buy an EV though, because I needed to replace a troublesome diesel and didn't want another diesel. So bought something older with a small battery. It's worked out really well so far. We have another petrol car to fall back on. But haven't needed to do that.
 
Angus said:
True but the EV stories are very worrying. I am waiting to move from ICE to PHEV or EV or whatever. If I had bought the ID4 as planned last year I would be nursing a loss of €22K which is unsustainable for a normal person. If the EVs go like Mobile Phones or Computers then when does one buy, the investmanet is huge unlile a mobile phone. My depreciation on the ICE is €4-5 per year so I don't have the answer and putting off the decison.
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Our first car (bought used) was 19 years old when we scrapped it. Our 2nd car (new) was kept for 12 years - it was worth about €3k when we gave it to a friend and it is still going strong. Our current car was bought new 2 years ago and I expect to drive it for at least another 10 years. My parents are driving cars of voting age.

Any "loss" is only unsustainable if it's realised, i.e. if/when you sell the car. People generally do not need to change cars very often. If they choose to then that's a different matter and nothing to do with EVs.

As is often advised on AAM, people should be very careful about buying any car (ICE or EV), especially a new one, and particularly if on credit/PCP as it is one of the most best ways to squander money.
 
arbitron said:
Unless you are Jerry Seinfeld or Jay Leno collecting supercars then whatever vehicle you purchase is a financial liability. Some cars depreciate more slowly than others but they all lose value. Even middle-of-the road family cars can cost more in monthly payments than a mortgage. You can estimate that a car will be worth a particular amount in 3, 5, 10 years time but you are taking a gamble as it may go out of fashion, turn out to be a lemon, get dinged and scratched, etc. There's never a guarantee that it will hold value.

From an overall environmental point of view the best ways to travel from least to most polluting are: walking, cycling, public/shared transit, used EV, used ICE, new EV, new ICE. If you look just at local emissions then both 2nd hand and new ICE are by far the worst as they produce exhaust fumes that can have particularly harmful effects on children. Some people here may remember the bad smog problem Dublin had in the 1980s and Prof. Luke Clancy's campaign to prevent literally hundreds of deaths a year. I'm sure it's not controversial to try to reduce respiratory disease in babies. EVs have a role to play in this.

EVs do have an upfront carbon cost of production but after a couple of years that disappears and over their lifetime they are far less polluting than an ICE. Another big difference is that electricity is becoming more sustainable each year while fossil fuels are about as "clean" as they can ever be. There is also a lot to be said for getting our energy from a windfarm off Wicklow instead of from the maniac members of OPEC.

People greatly overestimate car range needs. 70% of daily car trips are shorter than 10km. Average commutes vary from 7km in Dublin to 17km nationally. Even the highest county average (Laois and Roscommon) is only 27km. That means an overnight charge at home once a week.

A VW Passat will suit most households but it would not suit a large family. If we were to follow the anti-EV thought process we would all drive mini-buses on the off chance that we needed to give a lift to a rugby 7s team going from Belfast to Ballybunion in such a hurry that we cannot stop for a toilet break.
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I remember the smog well. Mostly caused by coal burning. Couldn't see 10ft. I remember buses having the conductor standing on the front step with a torch trying to find the kerb for the driver.

We just downsized from a 7 seater, because just don't use all the seats anymore. Made little sense to drag that around all the local short trips.
 
Angus said:
At the moment. It’s a Mugs Game and I feel very sorry for people that lost €22k in a year, who can afford that? I wish it was different but I get no pleasure in these results.
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They can afford it alright. If you need a good car one can be purchased for 10k and provide years of service.
Of course keeping up with the Jones's is another matter.
 
AlbacoreA said:
I remember the smog well. Mostly caused by coal burning. Couldn't see 10ft. I remember buses having the conductor standing on the front step with a torch trying to find the kerb for the driver.

We just downsized from a 7 seater, because just don't use all the seats anymore. Made little sense to drag that around all the local short trips.
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It was M.Harney of the PDs who shocked the fuel burning 'industry' by bringing in the ban.
Shame it took C 34years for the ban to go countrywide, again on fear of during from same 'industry'
Same backlash here ICEs are 100% perfect. It's funny to read this from contributors from one of Europe's most gridlocked cities.
 
Having kept older cars for a long time, with minimal servicing costs. I feel our more recent ICE cars have been a lot less reliable. Needing stupid things replaced like sensors, lights,pumps, filters, leads etc far more than in the past and parts and servicing has got stupid expensive. I was willing to try a cheaper EV as local runabout to see if it's better.
 
clinteastwood said:
It was M.Harney of the PDs who shocked the fuel burning 'industry' by bringing in the ban.
Shame it took C 34years for the ban to go countrywide, again on fear of during from same 'industry'
Same backlash here ICEs are 100% perfect. It's funny to read this from contributors from one of Europe's most gridlocked cities.
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Those wood burning stoves are the current curse. Much as I like an open fire, in the urban environment their day is done.
 
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AlbacoreA said:
Those wood burning stoves are the current curse. Much as I like an open fire, in urban environment their day is done.
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Yes. However with little indigenous energy sources they have a role to play in non urban settings. Your comment about less reliability on ICEs is because of the ever increasing and reliable standards for emissions which car firms must comply too.
Especially diesels, their emissions reductions systems are everywhere more complex. I hear a new standard in 2025 will mean an exhaust system for a diesel will cost c.2500E, making the cars uneconomic to produce.

As a v small market of right hand drive vehicles, the Irish Market will changes regardless of what us locals want or rant about or blame on politicians. Car multinationals will decide for us based on what is most profitable to make and sell in order to comply with the emissions standards. End of..
 
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Angus said:
True but the EV stories are very worrying. I am waiting to move from ICE to PHEV or EV or whatever. If I had bought the ID4 as planned last year I would be nursing a loss of €22K which is unsustainable for a normal person. If the EVs go like Mobile Phones or Computers then when does one buy, the investmanet is huge unlile a mobile phone. My depreciation on the ICE is €4-5 per year so I don't have the answer and putting off the decison.
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If you bought an id4 one would assume you had the money to do so, in what way would the loss in value of the car been so unsustainable for you? It's a stinger for sure but on the flip side new cars have had similar percentage drops and as the loss in value only crystallizes when you trade I'm wondering where the unsustainability is?
 
arbitron said:
Our first car (bought used) was 19 years old when we scrapped it. Our 2nd car (new) was kept for 12 years - it was worth about €3k when we gave it to a friend and it is still going strong. Our current car was bought new 2 years ago and I expect to drive it for at least another 10 years. My parents are driving cars of voting age.

Any "loss" is only unsustainable if it's realised, i.e. if/when you sell the car. People generally do not need to change cars very often. If they choose to then that's a different matter and nothing to do with EVs.

As is often advised on AAM, people should be very careful about buying any car (ICE or EV), especially a new one, and particularly if on credit/PCP as it is one of the most best ways to squander money.
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I'll be honest don't really get the realised loss ideal. It feels like you're pretending it's not a loss until you trade in or sell it.

Only make sense if you financied it. What if you bought it out right. I just think it as capital (or finance) that's not being used for something else.

I'm certainly not fooling anyone by having a new Merc or Audi outside the door every 3 years. If that's the idea. If someone likes having a new car regularly and its easy to do it, then why not.

But cars and EVs last year were crazy prices. There was an ID4 in the showroom at 60k and an ID Buzz at 70k+. When I saw that I'm thinking I'd buy a far more premium older luxury barge for half that. It just made no sense. I just knocked it on the head at that.

You'd get into a new Octavia for just over 30k which is so much bang for buck and all the car most people need. Even if you've no interest in a Skoda, it's water mark for comparing the cost of other cars in the market.
 
AlbacoreA said:
I'll be honest don't really get the realised loss ideal. It feels like you're pretending it's not a loss until you trade in or sell it.

Only make sense if you financied it. What if you bought it out right. I just think it as capital (or finance) that's not being used for something else.

I'm certainly not fooling anyone by having a new Merc or Audi outside the door every 3 years. If that's the idea. If someone likes having a new car regularly and its easy to do it, then why not.

But cars and EVs last year were crazy prices. There was an ID4 in the showroom at 60k and an ID Buzz at 70k+. When I saw that I'm thinking I'd buy a far more premium older luxury barge for half that. It just made no sense. I just knocked it on the head at that.

You'd get into a new Octavia for just over 30k which is so much bang for buck and all the car most people need. Even if you've no interest in a Skoda, it's water mark for comparing the cost of other cars in the market.
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Ah I'm not sure about that, it's a manual 1 litre petrol that wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Any bit of spec and an automatic and it'll be pushing 40 especially if you want a tiny bit of power.

You'd be in an id4 for less.
 
Not a new one. Not everyone need to pull the skin of rice pudding on the way to school, or on the way to football practice.

Anyway the ID4 have all dramatically fallen in price. Though you'd be into small battery base model and high mileage. That so many have high mileage says a lot. Many ex taxis.
 
AlbacoreA said:
I'll be honest don't really get the realised loss ideal. It feels like you're pretending it's not a loss until you trade in or sell it.

Only make sense if you financied it. What if you bought it out right. I just think it as capital (or finance) that's not being used for something else.
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The decrease in value is only an issue if you plan to sell the car at a particular point in time. For people selling within 3 years of buying, they are taking a bigger hit. Anyone keeping a car for 10+ years is not really going to feel any loss.

It's a bit like the value of your PPR doubling/halving. You don't feel wealthy/poor unless you actually sell your home.

Absolutely agree with you re: the capital being tied up, that is one of the great cons of our time alongside diamond rings and Ticketmaster. 5-6 figures for a depreciating item that sits idle for >90% of the time. If you look at what a car actually costs per day of ownership (or worse, per hour of use) it must be multiple times the cost of a house.
 
arbitron said:
The decrease in value is only an issue if you plan to sell the car at a particular point in time. For people selling within 3 years of buying, they are taking a bigger hit. Anyone keeping a car for 10+ years is not really going to feel any loss.

It's a bit like the value of your PPR doubling/halving. You don't feel wealthy/poor unless you actually sell your home.

Absolutely agree with you re: the capital being tied up, that is one of the great cons of our time alongside diamond rings and Ticketmaster. 5-6 figures for a depreciating item that sits idle for >90% of the time. If you look at what a car actually costs per day of ownership (or worse, per hour of use) it must be multiple times the cost of a house.
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Cant agree ............... Asset drops in value .................. its a loss.
 
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