Delays in rolling out vaccine

[Paul O Mahoney]

Vaccination roll out is a shambles IMO. Now the AZ vaccine of which a supply of 21000 doses having arrived to much fanfare by the minister is probably of no use against the SA variant. It must be tweaked and Autumn is said to be the expected date of arrival. We have children being deprived of their education despite them not being responsible for the surge over xmas. Most days I checked the stats there were zero covid positive children in paediatric hospitals. Therefore children dont get ill with covid. Best to admit closing schools was a bad decision totally OTT. So much elective healthcare has postponed indefinitely when it should have gone ahead plus many people delaying attending hospitals because of fear. Vaccination is not the way out of this. The virus mutated too rapidly and by autumn you can bet there will be other variants out there. A good treatment repurposed or new is what's required IMO. The swedish approach to developing some level of herd immunity might not be such a bad approach after all. We cant live like this economically or socially much longer. A zero covid approach is utter fantasy in my view. We cannot hermetically seal our borders. Wouldn't work.

Well the Astrazeneca vaccine isn't " useless " it does give protection to people getting " seriously ill" it's efficiency versus low and medium symptoms of the SA variant is lower, but the study of 2000 people isn't peer reviewed yet, and Astrazeneca are adamant it does give protection.
All vaccine makers are working on new vaccines to cover present and future variants and mutations.
It's highly likely that we will need boosters and get vaccinated annually, an article in Bloomberg over the weekend said it might be 7 years before we have sufficient vaccines and treatment to control the virus's again it was a view of some immunologist in the US.
Children don't get sick like adults but they do get it and spread it, and a 3 year old has died from it after 3 days of being diagnosed, no reasons/ details were given on her overall health.
Schools did do very well but the UK variant is very transmissionable and this is a concern.

I know of a very young mother who was fighting cancer and attending treatment in one Dublin hospital (only place she went) she got covid and sadly died last Tuesday leaving 2 boys behind and a heartbroken husband.So people are right to be weary and most healthcare workers are engaged in Covid work.

Sweden hasn't developed "herd immunity " and are now doing what the rest of the world are doing.

This is very difficult for all of us but we need to be very careful on what we wish for and yes the vaccine rollout is slow but the biggest obstacle now is supply and delivery due to a host of reasons.

 

[Purple]

The virus mutated too rapidly and by autumn you can bet there will be other variants out there.

All viruses mutate. The more people who are vaccinated the less it will spread and so the less it will mutate.
The technology to develop the first mRNA vaccine was the big leap. Changing vaccines to deal with variants is a much smaller and faster step.
It is not mutating to any major degree and it's not mutating particularly quickly.

A good treatment repurposed or new is what's required IMO.

That's like saying "something else that works better is a better solution".

 

[Cricketer]

children dont get ill with covid

However, up to date mass testing in Irish childcare facilities has revealed a 12.5% positivity rate. These children play with each other and go home to parents and grandparents. There's the problem.

 

[Purple]

However, up to date mass testing in Irish childcare facilities has revealed a 12.5% positivity rate. These children play with each other and go home to parents and grandparents. There's the problem.

Can you post a ink to that please?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

All viruses mutate. The more people who are vaccinated the less it will spread and so the less it will mutate.
The technology to develop the first mRNA vaccine was the big leap. Changing vaccines to deal with variants is a much smaller and faster step.
It is not mutating to any major degree and it's not mutating particularly quickly.

But just remember creating a new vaccine and producing/delivering will have a considerable time difference.

An English Professor Sarah Gilbert Oxford, was on Andrew Marr yesterday and she did say that all these variables/variants are being investigated but it's going to take time to fully understand what they mean for vaccination programs .

 

[EmmDee]

The swedish approach to developing some level of herd immunity might not be such a bad approach after all. We cant live like this economically or socially much longer. A zero covid approach is utter fantasy in my view. We cannot hermetically seal our borders. Wouldn't work.

Deaths per 100k in Ireland : 74.4
Deaths per 100k in Sweden : 117.8

School closures aren't to protect the kids - it's to prevent onward transmission

 

[Susie2017]

There are many reports on pubmed of individual patients harbouring several mutants of the virus. How can anyone 'plan' for these future mutants before they occur ? annual vaccination is unlikely to give the protection that is required. Elderly people don't respond to vaccines in the way younger individuals do. What is the immune response rate to the flu vaccine in the over 75s ? Is it 50 % ? Yes children play and should be allowed to do so with friends including schoolpals. They need viral infections to develop their immune systems. Locking up kids like what is being done now will harm the development of their immune systems, not to mention the psychological damage that is being done. Their immune systems fight covid. I know of many cases of kids covid + running around business as usual. You can lock up every kid in Ireland because of one child death. Kids die from other illnesses meningitis, accidents etc on a much more frequent basis but they are not locked down because of it. Watch out for increased incidence of anaphylaxis, allergies, Crohns and worse (acute leukemia) in kids in future because their immune systems need 8 or so viruses a year to develop correctly. Scientifically proven. Ask any paediatrician. Using hand sanitiser in schools should be BANNED with immediate effect. Cocoon the elderly and vulnerable and let the rest of society get on with it. Effective treatments are likely to be the only way out of this. Emdee check the number of elderly in Sweden, before you compare with our figures please, in the interests of transparency. And before you look at fatality rates look at number of comorbidities and whether the individual died with or 'from' Covid - because that's hard to decipher, and no journalist is bothering to ask. All thy are interested in is headline number. Also ask how many elderly in NHs are transferred for acute care in hospitals ? Are they offered oxygen, anticoags, dex etc If not then this is likely to be reflected in a higher mortality, common sense would dictate.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Effective treatments are the only way out of this.

Yes they are called vaccines.

 

[Susie2017]

You think vaccines are the perfect 'treatment'. You see no issues with them? I have heard of colleagues collapse after the second dose of one type wont name it here but you know the one I mean. Necessitating time off work in several individuals I know. Do you think the elderly will be immune from these reactions ? You didnt answer if you think the elderly will amount an effective immune response ? What about duration of immunity ? If it takes AZ til Sept to roll out their new version then when can we expect to receive it ? By Chistmas ? Some time in 2022 ? Are we to stay in lockdown til then ? What if there is another new variant in May for instance ? I still say get our kids back to school now. Await treatments. Inhaled interferon for one example. Vaccines are too slow. All IMO of course....

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

You think vaccines are the perfect 'treatment'. You see no issues with them? I have heard of colleagues collapse after the second dose of one type wont name it here but you know the one I mean. Necessitating time off work in several individuals I know. Do you think the elderly will be immune from these reactions ? You didnt answer if you think the elderly will amount an effective immune response ? What about duration of immunity ? If it takes AZ til Sept to roll out their new version then when can we expect to receive it ? By Chistmas ? Some time in 2022 ? Are we to stay in lockdown til then ? What if there is another new variant in May for instance ? I still say get our kids back to school now. Await treatments. Inhaled interferon for one example. Vaccines are too slow. All IMO of course....

Yes vaccines are the answer.

 

[Cricketer]

Can you post a ink to that please?

@Purple, it was in yesterday's Irish Times.

 

[tomdublin]

didnt answer if you think the elderly will amount an effective immune response ?

It's not important what you or I or any other lay person think about whether vaccines are effective, dangerous or whatever. These vaccines are developed, tested, evaluated and regulated by thousands of very brainy, very experienced and very well funded scientists who also tend to be very cautious. If they say that the risk associated with being vaccinated is infinitely smaller than the risk associated with contracting Covid and infecting others, who are we to disagree with them? It's OK to be critical and sceptical about lots of things but here it's important to listen to those whose judgement is based on scientific evidence.

 

[joe sod]

Northern Ireland have vaccinated 600000 as of now and we have only done 230,000. Those are pretty stark statistics and really illustrates the shambles of our own and Eu vaccination program. I think we should swallow our pride and get some of the UK excess, they are more than willing to provide anyways as we share the common travel area and the main reason for the upsurge here was exposure to the UK and UK variant. Heads need to roll at eu level for this shambles, they have been too cozy and protected from the electorates for too long, their is a democratic deficit at the heart of the eu. We still don't know the people who made the actual decisions and why.

 

[SlurrySlump]

Many of us are itching at the bit to get back travelling overseas again.

Is there information online telling us about how other countries are doing with their vaccination rollout?

It is all very well to say that we have isolated the South African strain here in Ireland but that is not much use when travel opens up again and other countries have not isolated the S.A. variant.

Then you think about the AstraZeneca vaccine and the reports that it may not be great against the S.A. variant. I just get the feeling that this vaccine will be the vaccine of choice for our government and offered/given to all people under age 70 years. What happens if someone gets vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine then travels to a country where it the S.A variant is not under control?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Northern Ireland have vaccinated 600000 as of now and we have only done 230,000. Those are pretty stark statistics and really illustrates the shambles of our own and Eu vaccination program. I think we should swallow our pride and get some of the UK excess, they are more than willing to provide anyways as we share the common travel area and the main reason for the upsurge here was exposure to the UK and UK variant. Heads need to roll at eu level for this shambles, they have been too cozy and protected from the electorates for too long, their is a democratic deficit at the heart of the eu. We still don't know the people who made the actual decisions and why.

Covid-19: Vaccines saving lives in NI, McBride says

The chief medical officer says the public should have a high confidence in Covid-19 vaccines.

www.bbc.com

600,000? You might want to read the above link.
Additionally Northern Ireland was 4 weeks ahead of us,also look at the second dose figures for both.

 

[Prosper]

Northern Ireland have vaccinated 600000 as of now and we have only done 230,000. Those are pretty stark statistics

I agree - if you were correct. Where do you get your "facts"?

 

[joe sod]

600,000? You might want to read the above link.

Yes you are correct I made a mistake there its actually around 300K now . Thats what they said on newstalk business this morning Im certain. It doesn't take away from the thrust of what I said in the rest of the post. The UK has 20% of their population now vaccinated and did 350K today alone, they are racing ahead to vaccinate as many as possible with the first dose while holding back the second dose for alot longer which is a very pragmatic decision.
We need answers from Brussels on why they messed up and why they insisted on haggling over the price they would pay the pharma companies . Afterall the price difference was only be in the millions , small change to an organisation that throws around billions. The cost to the EU is more months of lockdowns costing many billions along with many more deaths and livelihoods destroyed. There needs to more answers who messed up and what bureacracy ?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Yes you are correct I made a mistake there its actually around 300K now . Thats what they said on newstalk business this morning Im certain. It doesn't take away from the thrust of what I said in the rest of the post. The UK has 20% of their population now vaccinated and did 350K today alone, they are racing ahead to vaccinate as many as possible with the first dose while holding back the second dose for alot longer which is a very pragmatic decision.
We need answers from Brussels on why they messed up and why they insisted on haggling over the price they would pay the pharma companies . Afterall the price difference was only be in the millions , small change to an organisation that throws around billions. The cost to the EU is more months of lockdowns costing many billions along with many more deaths and livelihoods destroyed. There needs to more answers who messed up and what bureacracy ?

Who said they haggled over price? If you remember we were only told there was a viable vaccine 3 months ago, now there are 3 and eventough there are 3 there is a supply shortage that nobody can control even the EU.
Citing the UK is irrelevant as they have AZ practically for itself eventough the EU have ordered 4 times the amount than the UK and paid 50% of the cost in August/ September which was €320m or thereabouts.
Well if your interested von der Leyen is being questioned tomorrow perhaps you should tune in.

You might think that single doses is the way to go in order to justify your narrative but the Jury is very much out on this , both manufacturers and the BMA aren't exactly thrilled with the single dose regime but like everything thing else time will tell.

The UK hasn't even reached 10% of second doses of its first dose rollout while we are over 50% of first doses which is a safer way of doing this, and we are using practically every dose we get.

The facts are out there if you want to read them

 

[Leo]

they are racing ahead to vaccinate as many as possible with the first dose while holding back the second dose for alot longer which is a very pragmatic decision.

If it's pragmatic, why is it against recommended practice? Administering single doses rather than the recommended two is likely to prolong the path towards herd immunity, and potentially make it unobtainable. There are very good reasons for the recommended spacing of doses.

We need answers from Brussels on why they messed up and why they insisted on haggling over the price they would pay the pharma companies . Afterall the price difference was only be in the millions , small change to an organisation that throws around billions. The cost to the EU is more months of lockdowns costing many billions along with many more deaths and livelihoods destroyed. There needs to more answers who messed up and what bureacracy ?

The EU invested hundreds of millions into a number of pharma companies to fund accelerated testing and ramping up of production lines. Do you think throwing another few hundred million would have gotten us vaccines much quicker?

I'd argue they should have spent more time negotiating, particularly with AZ who deliberately delayed even submitting their vaccine for EU approval until after it was approved and being distributed in the UK.

 

[Prosper]

It doesn't take away from the thrust of what I said in the rest of the post.

Posting a false figure (wrong by a factor of 98%) in order to make RoI's vaccination performance appear really bad, doesn't take away from the thrust of what you said? Are you kidding?