Couple - late 30s: Questions around consolidating finances, renovating home and backup plans if a startup doesn't work out

Coco&Pine

New Member
Messages
7
Personal Details:

Age:
Me:
39

Partner:
38

Employment:

Annual gross income:
Me:
E85,000

Partner:
E75,000

Type of employment:
Me:
Civil Servant

Partner:
Partner had a corporate profession with gross salary at E100,000 (& path upwards from there). Left in 2019 to start a startup company. Company is doing well in terms of customers / market validation and has come through a couple of funding rounds.
2020: gross salary E45,000​
2021: gross salary E60,000​
2022: gross salary E75,000​

Partner owns 60% of the company (remainder is owned by investors + team ESOP).

Whether the company ends up succeeding or not is possibly the biggest variable in partner’s financial future (and mine by extension). The next few years will tell alot - in terms of whether the company is potentially on track for an exit.

If not, then partner may return to the corporate world or try something else.

Pension:

Pension schemes:

Me:
New Entrant Public Service Pension (Defined Benefit)
AVCs (Defined Contribution) 8.4% paid monthly - currently value - Just over E32,000. At least 21 more years until retirement. Possibly 25 more years.

Partner:
Corporate Pension with two companies previously worked with (E30,000/E40,000).
No pension payments in the past five years.
Aims to start payments into pension this year.

Borrowings
  1. Mortgage:
Me:
  • E250,000 Mortgage for the past 2 years. 35 yr mortgage at 2.9% fixed rate for 5 more years.(I bought this property and got mortgage in own my own name before we got together)
Property Details:
Size: 2 bed house​
Rough Estimate of Value: E300,000​
Mortgage remaining: E248,000​
Rental income per year: E7,200​
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest :​
1.Home Insurance: E500 pa
2.Repairs/Odds & Ends pa: E1,000
Lender: Bank of Ireland​
Interest rate: 3% fixed for next 5 years.​

Partner:
E113,000 owing on property. (Property now worth E400,000) (bought this property before we got together and got mortgage in own name)​
Property Details:
Buy to let property​
2 bed apartment​
Rough Estimate of Value: E400,000​
Mortgage Remaining: E113,000​
Rental income per year: E21,000​
Rough annual expenses other than mortgage interest :​
1.Mortgage Company Fees pa: E3,000​
2. Repairs/Odds & Ends pa: E500​
Lender: Bank of Ireland​
Interest rate: 3% fixed for next 5 years.​

  1. Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
Me:
E15,000 Credit Union Loan​
Interest Rate: 6.51%​
Monthly Payments: E630 taken at salary source & not included in monthly income​

Partner:
None​
  1. Credit Cards
Both Paid off fully every month.​

Savings and investments:

Savings
Joint Savings of E15,000 (E7,500 each)​
In general we are saving E1,600 pm together.​

Investments:

Me:
None​

Partner:
Crypto:​
E2,000​
Startup Company:​
Partner has shares in the startup company (owns 60%). They were valued in the millions at a couple of investment rounds but would prefer to ascribe a 0% value since not currently liquid and no guarantee they will ever be worth anything.​

Marriage:
Planning to marry this year - 2023. While we plan to have our own incomes and expenditures, we already have a joint account for joint expenditure and we would like to merge our assets together and pay the mortgages and expenses together as a couple.

Children:
None - and may not be on the cards for us.

What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?

1.House Renovation/Buy:

As outlined above, my partner has an apartment with a lot of equity in it. I have a house that I purchased in the last few years and I still have more or less the full mortgage owing on it. We would like a bigger house to live in, our forever home. My partner was paying off the mortgage on the apartment with a view to financial security in retirement should the start up company not succeed. However, we now want to either build an extension onto my house or buy a new larger house together.

The options we see are:
  1. Sell both properties, make about E350,000 profit after the sales (Partner would have some CGT on their house as not living in it last 3 years). Get a joint mortgage of E200,000 to purchase a house rather than renovating the house I currently own.
  2. Release equity on the apartment to give us about E200,000 for renovations on this house. Then continue to pay the mortgage on this house and the E200, 000 to be paid for by renting it to tenants.
  3. Sell the apartment and use the E350,000 for renovations and E150,000 in savings.
  4. Sell my house (Make E50,000ish) and release E400,000 equity on the apartment. Then purchase a house for E450,000 and start again paying off the apartment by renting it to tenants.

We are looking for opinions on:
  1. What option would be the best both financially and for security in our retirement?
  2. Anything anyone sees that we should be doing differently?

2. Our Financial Affairs:

In general,
  1. What should/could we be doing differently?
  2. Consolidating our finances - any advice.

3. Back-up Plan

Partner is realistic about the odds of a start-up succeeding to the point of acquisition (low!). How much should they be paying into pension and is there anything else we should be thinking of as a back out plan. There could be scope to increase salary a little depending on how the next funding round goes (institutional investors generally support this).
 
Whether the company ends up succeeding or not is possibly the biggest variable in partner’s financial future (and mine by extension). The next few years will tell alot - in terms of whether the company is potentially on track for an exit.

This is such a huge unknown, that it's hard to plan.

If the company succeeds and is bought out, does your partner become a multimillionaire? If so, the home you are planning as your forever home now, may well not be your forever home for very long.

Is there any financial risk to your partner? If the company goes bust, does it leave them with a bad credit record or any liabilities or are they fully insulated from a bad outcome?
 
As outlined above, my partner has an apartment with a lot of equity in it. I have a house that I purchased in the last few years and I still have more or less the full mortgage owing on it. We would like a bigger house to live in, our forever home. My partner was paying off the mortgage on the apartment with a view to financial security in retirement should the start up company not succeed. However, we now want to either build an extension onto my house or buy a new larger house together.

What is the rush?

You are not together very long. Your partner has a lot on their plate. A business and a wedding. You have a good stake in the property market, you can trade up and unite your finances when it suits you.

Brendan
 
This is such a huge unknown, that it's hard to plan.

If the company succeeds and is bought out, does your partner become a multimillionaire? If so, the home you are planning as your forever home now, may well not be your forever home for very long.

Is there any financial risk to your partner? If the company goes bust, does it leave them with a bad credit record or any liabilities or are they fully insulated from a bad outcome?

Definitely the biggest unknown. Yes exit potential in the millions but would stress that v few startups make it.

No financial exposure to partner if company doesnt work out.


What is the rush?

You are not together very long. Your partner has a lot on their plate. A business and a wedding. You have a good stake in the property market, you can trade up and unite your finances when it suits you.

Brendan
Well since 2019.

We're not planning a wedding - not our thing. But do want to get married.
 
Thanks very much Brendan for the comments so far.

Makes sense on loan.

While anything could happen with the company, we are currently trying to plan on the assumption that nothing will happen and to look at our options for next few years, based on our current situation.
 
While anything could happen with the company, we are currently trying to plan on the assumption that nothing will happen and to look at our options for next few years, based on our current situation.

OK, that is a good assumption to make and then everything else is a bonus.

If you buy a house for €450k and you find that you are millionaires and can afford a €2m house, well you will just have to live with it.

If your partner is not going to be financially disadvantaged, then it's fine to buy a house together. ( If they might need a PIA or bankruptcy, you would be better off going it alone if possible, although that probably would not be feasible either.)

Brendan
 
Rough Estimate of Value: E300,000Mortgage remaining: E248,000

Rough Estimate of Value: E400,000Mortgage Remaining: E113,000

Sell both properties, make about E350,000 profit after the sales (Partner would have some CGT on their house as not living in it last 3 years). Get a joint mortgage of E200,000 to purchase a house rather than renovating the house I currently own.

You earn about €160k , so you could comfortably borrow €300k or, a little less comfortably, €400k.

That means you could buy a house for €750k.

Maybe you don't want such a big mortgage, but €450k seems a bit light. But if you can your forever home for €450k, that is fine.

I would focus on getting the house you want to live in and forget about keeping either property as an investment.

Your partner will be busy enough with their business venture and won't want the distraction of a problem tenant.
 
Pinoy adventure - Clear the CU Loan First
Great advice! However the E15,000 is my loan so it's not my partner's and while we have E15,000 in savings (E7,500 each), this is a buffer / safety net for any unexpected expenses that may arise e.g. health care, car expenses, anything that might need fixing with the house, any out of work time etc. My hope is that the E15,000 will be paid off by the end of this year, without using our savings up.

Brendan Burgess - Is there any financial risk to your partner?
My partner has no financial exposure to the company (company has no loans, there are no personal guarantees etc). The main downside risk - as we see it - is the opportunity cost / market salary forgone during the period of the startup.

Releasing Equity:
What about the idea that my partner releases equity from her apartment, say E200,000 and we use that to renovate the house we have (as we love where we live). Together we'd have the mortgage from my house (E250,000) and the Mortgage left on my partner's (E113,000) and the equity release Mortgage ( 200,000) We would get E1,800 per month in rent from the apartment. This is with a view then of having two properties paid off in 20 years when we hope to retire? Together we earn E8,800 monthly from our salaries. Does this make financial sense? Is it something the banks would go for?
 
@Brendan Burgess has clearly explained why having the CU loan doesn't make sense. The rainy day fund issue doesn't really change that. It doesn't really make sense to ask for feedback but then argue against or ignore prudent advice.
 
Pinoy adventure - Clear the CU Loan First
Great advice! However the E15,000 is my loan so it's not my partner's and while we have E15,000 in savings (E7,500 each), this is a buffer / safety net for any unexpected expenses that may arise e.g. health care, car expenses, anything that might need fixing with the house, any out of work time etc. My hope is that the E15,000 will be paid off by the end of this year, without using our savings up.
In your circumstances I think it's okay to be holding €15k in cash despite a CU loan.

There is downside risk to your partner's income and also the BTL mortgage needs to be paid even if tenant stops paying rent.

There is an opportunity cost in terms of the interest on the CU loan but you often find that credit is hardest to find when you need it the most.
 
Brendan Burgess - Is there any financial risk to your partner?
My partner has no financial exposure to the company (company has no loans, there are no personal guarantees etc). The main downside risk - as we see it - is the opportunity cost / market salary forgone during the period of the startup.
Currently your partner is pulling a healthy salary of 75k from company and although this maybe less than they could get in the market it has to be worth the risk given the potential upside.
 
In your circumstances I think it's okay to be holding €15k in cash despite a CU loan.

There is downside risk to your partner's income and also the BTL mortgage needs to be paid even if tenant stops paying rent.

There is an opportunity cost in terms of the interest on the CU loan but you often find that credit is hardest to find when you need it the most.

Good point about the BTL mortgage and the possibility of tenants not paying rent. We'd be relying on that rent to pay the mortgage.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps selling the apartment would be the safest financial thing to do. Use money from that to renovate the house.
 
Currently your partner is pulling a healthy salary of 75k from company and although this maybe less than they could get in the market it has to be worth the risk given the potential upside.
Bought in 2014. I didn't know about this, thank you!
 
Bought in 2014. I didn't know about this, thank you!

This may or may not interact with the dwelling house relief to give you a greater relief.

It might be useful for you to start a thread in the tax forum asking about this if it hasn't been answered before.

Set out year of purchase, price, when it started to be a rental, value today.
 
The options we see are:
  1. Sell both properties, make about E350,000 profit after the sales (Partner would have some CGT on their house as not living in it last 3 years). Get a joint mortgage of E200,000 to purchase a house rather than renovating the house I currently own.
  2. Release equity on the apartment to give us about E200,000 for renovations on this house. Then continue to pay the mortgage on this house and the E200, 000 to be paid for by renting it to tenants.
  3. Sell the apartment and use the E350,000 for renovations and E150,000 in savings.
  4. Sell my house (Make E50,000ish) and release E400,000 equity on the apartment. Then purchase a house for E450,000 and start again paying off the apartment by renting it to tenants.
2&4 are non-runners, no bank will release equity on one property for you to spend it on another.

3 does not sound right either. Where are you getting the figures of €350k & €150k?? Do you mean that you would spend €200k renovating and retain €150k in savings? After your partner sells, clears mortgage and pays EA, solicitors and any CGT, they will be doing well to come out with €260-280k. Also, until you are married, your partner would be taking a huge risk selling and upgrading your house.

1 sounds like your only option and the cleanest solution. Sell both, use as much of the sale proceeds as possible for a deposit and then jointly borrow what you need. Limiting yourself to €200k seems unnecessarily cautious. You have no dependants and you are well paid public sector. Even if your partners startup failed, they can probably return to a well paid job. There is a balance but considering your income, I think €400k would still be comfortable for you

Property Details:Size: 2 bed houseRough Estimate of Value: E300,000Mortgage remaining: E248,000Rental income per year: E7,200
Is this rent-a-room income? Where are you both living now?

In general,
  1. What should/could we be doing differently?
  2. Consolidating our finances - any advice
I think you may be focussing on all the wrong things i.e. the success/failure of the startup.

For your age and income, you have relatively little wealth. You effectively have no savings, €7.5k with your partner but a CU loan of €15k and I presume most of the equity in your PPR has come from property price increases. Without knowing you salary history, it does appear that you are a big spender

Your partner on the other hand seems to be very financially prudent. They have built up a lot of equity in their PPR to allow themselves the opportunity to start a business. Merging your finances will be difficult if you are not on the same page when it comes to spending/saving money
 
What about the idea that my partner releases equity from her apartment, say E200,000 and we use that to renovate the house we have (as we love where we live).

OK. I can't tell you whether your existing house after renovation is better than buying a new house. That is a decision you have to make for yourself. But if you love your house, then staying with it seems like the right idea. You can buy a house somewhere else and then find you don't like it. Good location and good neighbours are worth more than the right kitchen worktops.

Releasing equity is not a good idea. Either sell it and use the proceeds. Or alternatively, can you finance the upgrade without selling the apartment? Then you can live in the apartment while the upgrade is going on. €150k means that you will be out of the house for 6 months.

Maybe the Credit Union would give you the money if your bank won't lend you any more.

If you do stay in your house, then I doubt that upgrading it would be that urgent.

Brendan
 
Back
Top