Zurich pension funds seemed to have fallen more than market

J

joe sod

Registered User
Messages
2,542
I have a Zurich standard PRSA, its by and large invested in equities, Eurozone equity , Dividend growth , international equities, 5*5 asia pacific, etc . So I was surprised that the pension value is down so much about 14% over last month. I also have normal share trading account outside of pension which has same investment theme mainly UK, Europe and rest of world with not that much US and that is only down 7% or so over last month . Also when you look at monthly charts for eurostoxx 600 down 10%, nikkei 225 down 10% and S&P 500 down 6%, that suggests that zurich funds should at most be down 10% since they are by and large components of those huge global indices, but they are down alot more??

I was surprised that this prsa was down so much , also how do you find a daily price chart for a zurich fund to see what is really happening? For example it will tell you what the bid and offer price is today but not what the daily prices are for last month just generic stuff like how it has performed in percentage terms over last 6 months , 1 year, 5 years etc.
 
Last edited:
joe sod said:
So I was surprised that the pension value is down so much about 14% over last month
Click to expand...

If your 'month' was from 12/04 to 11/05 the International Equity Fund (for example) is down 7.32% (inclusive of all charges).

I'm assuming that your 'month' dates are different, the mix of funds between pension/investment are different and the dates of the 'months' on both products are also different.

5*5 Asia Pacific is down double digits but that's not bringing you to 14%.


Gerard

www.execution-only.ie
 
Without looking into it in much detail, I would expect you’re missing the depreciation of the dollar in your assessment of how far the S&P etc. have fallen for a Euro investor.

Dollar has lost 10% since February and 5% in the last 5 days (relative to EUR). You’ll need to add those losses onto USD denominated index returns.
 
GSheehy said:
your 'month' was from 12/04 to 11/05 the International Equity Fund (for example) is down 7.32% (inclusive of all charges).
Click to expand...
Do you mean from the 12/04 to 11/03 I presume? Where can you get daily price charts or at least monthly chart showing up to the day performance. On the Zurich site the latest data only shows up to march 2025, the 3 month performance to march?The major proportion of my portfolio is eurozone equity fund, international equity, and dividend growth, that's about 60% of total, the rest like Asia Pacific, prisma 5 etc are about 6% each. Still doesn't explain the big fall.
Is there illiquidity or something in pension fund funds, for example does the pricing of Zurich international equity fund always reflect fully it's stock portfolio ? Also where can you find out the daily pricing of such a fund?
 
12/03 to 11/04

You still haven't said what 'month' (dates exactly) you're using for the 14%. The answer probably lies there.
 
joe sod said:
how do you find a daily price chart for a zurich fund
Click to expand...
Go to their broker website, go to the fund price calculator and when you see a list of funds, click the plus beside the funds you want.

To answer your question as to why the fund performance is difference to your other investments and to indices, it's because they are invested in slightly different things. That's why you're paying Zurich for active management; you want them to try to beat the market.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20250412-194225.png
    Screenshot_20250412-194225.png
    214.1 KB · Views: 11
GSheehy said:
You still haven't said what 'month' (dates exactly) you're using for the 14%. The answer probably lies there.
Click to expand...
from 1 february 2025 its down 14 %, from 1 April 2025 its down 8.8 %, its basically a global equity portfolio, but it seems to be down more than the underlying markets and don't have granular daily pricing of each of the zurich funds to see what is happening, hence the question ?
 
joe sod said:
its by and large invested in equities, Eurozone equity , Dividend growth , international equities, 5*5 asia pacific, etc .
Click to expand...
joe sod said:
its basically a global equity portfolio
Click to expand...
Seems to me that you're probably comparing apples and oranges - i.e. a mix of different (actively managed?) funds comprising a specific asset mix (which may not be 100% equities?) against "the markets".
 
I'd simply avoid looking at any pension balances for a few weeks.

Market is crazy.

Friday's jump won't be factored in yet and with trump's capitulation to pressure now dropping tariffs on most electronic and technology goods, there'll be more swings on Monday (positive). Dollar also probably strengthening a couple of cent.

I have my own pension tracker where I usually update the value weekly as I've a few funds, but haven't updated it for since February and won't be until at least June.

Hopefully by then it won't be too much off the Feb balance.
 
peemac said:
I'd simply avoid looking at any pension balances for a few weeks.

Market is crazy.

Friday's jump won't be factored in yet and with trump's capitulation to pressure now dropping tariffs on most electronic and technology goods, there'll be more swings on Monday (positive). Dollar also probably strengthening a couple of cent.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm thinking myself maybe it's still delayed prices, I don't think those Zurich funds are as liquid or as reflective of total world indices.

The point about active management doesn't really hold as they are generally dull and steady as you go global funds , they never knock it out of the park and conversely never fall drastically out of sync. That's what's surprising I wasn't expecting to see such a large fall considering everything else I own looks ok, you would expect my own share holding to be in worse shape than Zurich funds?
 
GSheehy said:
If your 'month' was from 12/04 to 11/05 the International Equity Fund (for example) is down 7.32% (inclusive of all charges).
Click to expand...

I have posted the 6 month performance of international equity fund from zurich, i would consider its benchmark to be the global index given that it has 70% US equities just like global index, yet global index is down around 6 or 7 % over last 6 months whereas many of the zurich global funds are down alot more, as you can see from graph the international equity fund which as its name suggests invests in global equities is down 15% and that is after a rebound over last few days, that is not great is it?
Screenshot (13).png
 
Last edited:
This is interesting and begs the basic question - what accounts for the fall in the Zurich funds. I thought the fall in value should approximately equate to fall in mkt value. Worth asking Zurich?
 
Doesn't look like I'm going to be able to explain it to you here so you should contact your broker for an explanation. It's his/her job and you're paying them. I

You've gone from 'over the last month' to some other random dates to 6 months (even though the attachment says 3 months).

The 6 month (the period where both prices of both funds are available from ie. the only period to use for complete accuracy) , for example, performance of the International Equity Fund V the Global Index tracker shows that the managed (Article 8) is the sum total 0.02% behind the the passive (Article 6) Global Index tracker.

The word 'seemed' should be highlighted in bold in the title of the thread.

Gerard

www.prsa.ie
 
Last edited:
GSheehy said:
You've gone from 'over the last month' to some other random dates to 6 months (even though the attachment says 3 months).
Click to expand...
most of the 15% fall was over the last few weeks, yes technically you are correct by pointing out exact calendar month but you just have to look at the chart to see the large falls over last month, 3 months, 6 months.
Everyone uses the msci world index as the basis for investing because it is so large , if it is the case that zurich are using "(Article 8) Global Index tracker" what is that, and why? surely they should be using the msci global index and if their funds are performing alot worse and are more volatile in this sell off surely they should be asking themselves big questions?
Its probably made me question my own prsa and change to a more flexible one that allows me to choose those very global ETFs that are not available through Zurich, but will wait until all this volatility calms down
 
Last edited:
jim said:
should approximately equate to fall in mkt value.
Click to expand...
Only if the fund has the same composition as the market. Which it won't, because it's an actively managed fund trying to beat the market. And it couldn't beat the market if it had the same holdings as the market.

The question is essentially "why do two different things have different results?" The answer is because they are different.
 
Last edited:
joe sod said:
(Article 8) Global Index tracker" what is that, and why? surely they should be using the msci global index and if their funds are performing alot worse and are more volatile in this sell off surely they should be asking themselves big questions?
Click to expand...
Article 8 funds would avoid oil and coal and the likes. That means one would expect it to perform differently to the MSCI World
 
Fortune said:
Article 8 funds would avoid oil and coal and the likes. That means one would expect it to perform differently to the MSCI World
Click to expand...
thanks, Im only discovering that now, its a bit misleading as you have to dive deep to discover that, the heading "international equities " and "5*5 global" does lead you to believe they are actually investing in the global equity markets and not excluding large sectors that look like they are leading to more volatility, very disappointed in all this, surely they should be more explicit and giving you the option to also choose a global equity fund without those restrictions
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top