Willy Walsh resignation

Re: Happy Clappy Airlines

hi tharg. i wasn't at the askaboutmoney christmas drinks thing - i was away from home that day and didn't get back 'til v. late. i think this discussion has become side-tracked and we'll have to agree to disagree. i (and others globally in the business press) think that by any standards (i.e. in comparison with other airlines), walsh has been remarkably successful. i also stick to my belief that being popular with the staff or being personable isn't all that relevant when judging his tenure. it's a side issue to be honest; it would be like hearing that he was an avid golfer or some-such piece of human interest trivia.

anyway, i've come to realise that this thread is somewhat futile as i don't think you and i would ever come to any sort of agreement no matter what arguments are presented. i think we have basic fundamental difference in world views when it comes to aer lingus. your claim that the cost of the severance packages came out of your pocket indicates to me that you believe that the staff own aer lingus. in contrast, i believe the public owns aer lingus. this basic difference means we will never view things the same way. i believe that aer lingus should be run for the benefit of the owners (i.e. the irish public) while you fundamentally seem to believe it should be run for the benefit of the staff. as a result, you didn't like walsh because he was unpleasant to the staff while i admired him because he turn losses into profits.

Re: Happy Clappy Airlines

Hi Darag.
Gald you didn't take the slagging about the time of your posting as seriously as Keano, I think he needs a sense of humour transplant...araaagh, he's only a langer from Cork!

Fair enough, I won't argue with you if you are set in your views, what would be the point, but other people reading this might see the other side of the coin. Thats what I'm more interested in doing...presenting the counter argument.
Take it or leave it.

By the way, when I said I will pay for the redundancies, I didn't mean in terms of my 'ownership' of the company or any such thing. What I was referring to was the fact that the departure of those employees means a higher workload for those remaining, and a weaker balance book...which I will have to subsidise through further future sacrifices in pay and conditions.

I refute your suggestion that I want to see Aer Lingus run for the staff. Thats just a weak right wing knee jerk dogma thats been worn out from over use.
The staff saved the company. Not Walsh.

Willys terminal boredom ...........

If the lad had stayed where he was he would be bored out of his mind within 18 months

Didnt he get on OK with Madam Harney when she was heading Enterprise & Employment ?

Isnt she in Health now ?

What chance Willy & his chums will turn up to run the ERHA ?

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

well tharg, did you hear your hero talking to dunphy this
morning? he was far more gracious towards the staff of
aer lingus than you've been to him.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

I only heard the second half of it.

Willy has always made 'politically correct' noises about his employees - in Public.
But it is what he does - in Company - that is more telling.

The legacy of his rule is alienation, distrust, poor morale and fading goodwill.

You stated earlier that these things don't matter.
Willy agrees with you...he told us to our faces - that he doesn't give a damn about morale!
What a leader!

The fact is that in a service industry like this, staff morale has a major impact on the quality of the service delivered. In a service industry a good leader DOES CARE about the morale of his employees because he knows the value in customer satisfaction it delivers.
O'Leary doesn't care about his staff morale either...and the results are read every day in the papers. But hey, at least its cheap.

As to Willy getting involved in the Health Service. No chance. Unless you can explain to me how this guy who has seen his colleagues and competitors grow mega-rich in the aviation industry is going to make a few tens of millions from sick people. Thats what he wants, and by God he's gonna get it, mark my words.

Willy is a One Trick Pony.
He'll do best sticking to what he knows...aeroplanes.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

tharg, it may be "political correctness" but he sounded far more gracious, reasonable and fairminded than you do presenting "your side".

as for staff morale; it's very nice if it's there and it can be unpleasant working in environments where there isn't any. i've worked in both and know which i prefer, but my experience is that staff morale didn't necessarily determine whether the business was a successful one or a basketcase. in one particular company our days were spent cheerfully predicting how long they could keep affording to pay us while making no money; great morale and atmosphere - This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language business that eventually got taken over and gutted. i've also worked in successful companies composed of a bitter and dour workforce. you've been reading too many hippy business books or listening to what's her name who set up the body shop; developing good staff morale is not the primary purpose of a business.

he may be a one trick pony but even if he is, it's a very valuable trick - turning a company losing more than 100 million a year into one making more than 100 million a year.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

I think Tharg needs a David Brent type boss - you know, [broken link removed] and all that...

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

tharg, it may be "political correctness" but he sounded far more gracious, reasonable and fairminded than you do presenting "your side".

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Well if slick talk is what you like - Slick Willy is your man.

as for staff morale...[it] didn't necessarily determine whether the business was a successful one or a basketcase.

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There you go again, trotting out that same old mantra...the inference is that if its a good environment it must be weak and doomed to failure.

It truly is a mark of Irish management that the norm seems to be 'the workforce are your enemy...sick'em'.
Do they teach this stuff in business school here? Or is it just the natural begrudgery which seems to infect the Irish mindset? A post colonial hangover that you can't seem to lose (I'm not Irish by the way). Or are you just generalising?

I've given you several examples already of succesful airlines with good working environments (Virgin, Southwest) and I'll add Ryanairs chief rival Low Cost Carrier easyjet to the list.

There's another....'GO'.

Barbara Cassani set up the no-frills airline GO for British Airways. She was a rare breed. A female airline chief executive who believed in doing things differently. Her European low-cost operation was launched in May 1998 with GBP25 million backing and within three years she took it into profit. Riding high, she led a management buy-out from BA, supported by the venture capitalist outfit 3i. They paid GBP110 million for the airline.

Less than a year later the venture capital group - battered by a falling stock market - had a chance to cash in their chips. GO was sold to arch-rival easyJet for an astonishing GBP374 million. At at time when the airline industry is of great interest to the public as well as being in flux, this fast-paced read gives a fascinating insight into how to create a successful company with limited resources in such a short space of time.

THE GO STORY is filled with real characters overcoming the odds to achieve great things and shows the remarkable vision and talent of the author, Barbara Cassani.
[broken link removed]

Click to expand...

Barbara Cassani is a boss I admire, and one I'd be happy to work for. She's from the same mould as Stelios, Branson, and Kelleher. People who see value in their workforce and work with them rather than against them.

O'Learys and Walsh's methods are outdated, inhuman and backward, and are based on personal greed and unfettered arrogance. I predict their eventual downfall.

And I don't find Ricky Gervais funny either...overrated crap. I guess people who work in an office might relate to it.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

It truly is a mark of Irish management that the norm seems to be 'the workforce are your enemy...sick'em'.

That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation. Irish management business practices and the way it treats its staff is no different from any company worldwide.
I've worked for Ireland's biggest printing company, where staff moral was crap and the management were true bullies. I've worked for a large American tech company, where moral was great to begin with but as the company grew the bullies (from across the water) made themselves known to us and I've worked for various smaller tech companies where management practices vary. In general they've been good. But regardless of my own personal experiences I don't let that and that alone taint my view of Irish companies.
Invariably, Irish practices tend to be entirely dependent on the particular company and the personalities within them.

Do they teach this stuff in business school here? Or is it just the natural begrudgery which seems to infect the Irish mindset? A post colonial hangover that you can't seem to lose (I'm not Irish by the way).

What experience do you have of working in Ireland, besides for Aer Lingus (I'm presuming you work for Aer Lingus?)? What industries have you worked in besides the airlines?
I'd hazard a guess that your point of view is obviously a very biased and subjective one, based on your own experiences and not taking other peoples views or other industries into consideration.

As for the "natural begrudgery" mindset comment. I'm assuming this is meant to be humourous? I hope so anyway!!

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

I made a sweeping generalisation?
Well certainly! It seems to be the norm around here.
You know, Unions are Baaaaad - Management are goooood. That type of stuff.
Boring, isn't it.
Can we drop the stereotypes now? Promise? Hmmm.....

FYI Piggy, I've worked in every continent on the globe. I also have friends and colleagues who still work in every part of the globe. I'm a pilot - remember? It comes with the territory.
I've seen good, bad, and indifferent management everywhere I've gone. I think I know the difference by now.

As to the Irish Begrudgery thing...come on...I didn't coin the phrase! I was introduced to it here! I'm surprised you deny its existence...you see it every day. Its a national pass-time.
I'm probably infected...begrudging Walsh his dues! :lol

P.S. Please direct your comments to the issue under discussion and desist from making personal attacks on me.
I don't want to see this useful and interesting discussion dragged off down that road by you. Thank you.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

Please direct your comments to the issue under discussion and desist from making personal attacks on me.

What personal attack? :\

My post specifically challenged your post and your point of view on certain subjects. As you admitted yourself, you were making sweeping generalisations.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

I'd hazard a guess that your point of view is obviously a very biased and subjective one, based on your own experiences and not taking other peoples views or other industries into consideration.

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That is an ad hominem comment which adds nothing to the debate and has no foundation in known fact.

Instead of 'guessing' about my personality, why don't you stick to the issue.

That is my last comment to you on this diversion.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

That is an ad hominem comment which adds nothing to the debate and has no foundation in known fact.

Instead of 'guessing' about my personality, why don't you stick to the issue.

No foundation in known fact? If we're to tread that road on this topic then I think we can probably throw out most of your commentary on Walsh. Little of it in relation to his personality is "known fact".

I'm not guessing about your personality at all. You made sweeping generalisations in relation to Irish management which had little to do with fact and I challenged those views. If you were offended by my comment about why I thought you were making those factless remarks then I retract it in the spirit of goodwill.

btw, if you want to stick to the topic then don't go off topic by making remarks about Irish management practices which others will obviously challenge.

Re: Willys terminal boredom ...........

Enought already