T McGibney
Registered User
- Messages
- 6,946
Ok, where?
Wills should not be published in the newspapers
- Thread starter Gordon Gekko
- Start date
NoRegretsCoyote
Registered User
- Messages
- 5,766
That's exactly the way the information is made available.
What you're looking for is a legal prohibition on dissemination of information which is legally already in the public domain and accessible to anyone.
I don't think you've thought through the wider implications of trying to ban this kind of activity.
Gordon Gekko
Registered User
- Messages
- 7,843
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m looking for it to be restricted to.
It serves no purpose to publish this information, other than for prurient gossips with nefarious agendas.
NoRegretsCoyote
Registered User
- Messages
- 5,766
But what is "publish" here?
So not in a national newspaper. But what about social media? What if it's emailed to a few hundred people? What about a work intranet? Does the prohibition last forever? If not, what's a reasonable timeframe for prohibition?
And if this kind of publication can be banned then why not ban land registry or company registration records from being published too? They're a good proxy for somone's wealth.
You haven't thought the implications through at all...
T McGibney
Registered User
- Messages
- 6,946
Again, where do you suggest?
Gordon Gekko
Registered User
- Messages
- 7,843
Strawman arguments.
I’m not sure why you’ve such a prurient interest in people’s Estates.
It’s quite simple. Someone, e.g. the Probate Office or whoever asks or mandates newspapers from printing these numbers.
They serve no purpose. Details about who owns a particular company are completely different.
NoRegretsCoyote
Registered User
- Messages
- 5,766
I have never looked one up and can only recall ever reading one once in a newspaper. My only interest in the principle which is much broader than the use case you care about.
You'd need a whole legal framework and set of resources to police and enforce such a prohibition. It displays either a weak understanding of or disregard for how public administration and the legal system work on your part.
Isn't there already a media regulator already responsible for such things?
If a media outlet wants to publish the details of a specific estate, do so in an article which explains the legitimate public interest.
Publishing a list without context, or without any attempt to demonstrate its "public interest" is an invasion of privacy.
And this is a typical occurrence at present in newspapers.
It should be looked at by the government as part of its changes to media regulation.
Last edited:
T McGibney
Registered User
- Messages
- 6,946
How can it be an invasion of privacy when they're merely listing information already included in State-published documents?
And isn't invasion of privacy rather moot in the context of a deceased person?
Sophrosyne
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,577
If you feel that strongly about the issue, you could contact the Law Reform Commission.
Its website includes a “Your Views” page and contact details.
Clearly the will has implications for the deceased person's immediate family - in many cases a living spouse or children.
And it speaks to privacy because it is unwarranted publicity.
There is a world of difference between a single person with a legitimate interest to access a specific will for review or to obtain information - in that case they have to go to the time and expense.
And re-publishing the details en masse in a media outlet without a legitimate interest merely for publicity purposes.
Early Riser
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,643
Publishing matters of public record is not an invasion of privacy.
Principle 5 − Privacy
5.1 Privacy is a human right, protected as a personal right in the Irish Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights, which is incorporated into Irish law. The private and family life, home and correspondence of everyone must be respected.
5.2 Readers are entitled to have news and comment presented with respect for the privacy and sensibilities of individuals. However, the right to privacy should not prevent publication of matters of public record or in the public interest.
5.3 Sympathy and discretion must be shown at all times in seeking information in situations of personal grief or shock. In publishing such information, the feelings of grieving families should be taken into account. This should not be interpreted as restricting the right to report judicial proceedings.
5.4 Public persons are entitled to privacy. However, where people hold public office, deal with public affairs, follow a public career, or have sought or obtained publicity for their activities, publication of relevant details of their private life and circumstances may be justifiable where the information revealed relates to the validity of the their conduct, the credibility of their public statements, the value of their publicly expressed views or is otherwise in the public interest.
5.5 Taking photographs of individuals in private places without their consent is not acceptable, unless justified by the public interest.
www.presscouncil.ie
Principle 5 − Privacy
5.1 Privacy is a human right, protected as a personal right in the Irish Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights, which is incorporated into Irish law. The private and family life, home and correspondence of everyone must be respected.
5.2 Readers are entitled to have news and comment presented with respect for the privacy and sensibilities of individuals. However, the right to privacy should not prevent publication of matters of public record or in the public interest.
5.3 Sympathy and discretion must be shown at all times in seeking information in situations of personal grief or shock. In publishing such information, the feelings of grieving families should be taken into account. This should not be interpreted as restricting the right to report judicial proceedings.
5.4 Public persons are entitled to privacy. However, where people hold public office, deal with public affairs, follow a public career, or have sought or obtained publicity for their activities, publication of relevant details of their private life and circumstances may be justifiable where the information revealed relates to the validity of the their conduct, the credibility of their public statements, the value of their publicly expressed views or is otherwise in the public interest.
5.5 Taking photographs of individuals in private places without their consent is not acceptable, unless justified by the public interest.
Code of Practice
www.presscouncil.ie
Early Riser
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,643
Yeah. What we really want in Ireland is one publication which is restricted to only publishing matters which are "in the public interest". A special committee should be set up which can adjudicate what the public should be told "in their own interest". Anything else is just "prurience" and would just be publishing "for publicity sake". Which, of course, is disgraceful.
Create a Registrar of all Wills, with registration of a will compulsory.
People can then submit their personal details, after the death of a family member, or friend, if they believe that they might have been mentioned in a will, and get confirmation.
No need to publish any details, then.
Discussion on Tax Defaulters and discussion on publishing details of inheritance should really be in two seperate discussion threads, btw. Hopefully a Mod will split this into two threads, soon.
People can then submit their personal details, after the death of a family member, or friend, if they believe that they might have been mentioned in a will, and get confirmation.
No need to publish any details, then.
Discussion on Tax Defaulters and discussion on publishing details of inheritance should really be in two seperate discussion threads, btw. Hopefully a Mod will split this into two threads, soon.
Last edited:
Sophrosyne
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,577
There is a bill going through the Dáil, now at the committee stage, called the Registration of Wills Bill 2021.
I agree that this thread should be split
Gordon Gekko
Registered User
- Messages
- 7,843
There’s so much in there that needs to be pulled apart, I don’t know where to start.
RonnieShinbal88
Registered User
- Messages
- 251
In Sweden you can access your neighbours tax return, never mind their estate after they die, it's public information.
Where you live, who you live with and your birthday are all published on line; I think it's horrific myself, but Swedes don't see it as anything extraordinary.
On the wills front I'd be far more focused on bringing in an official registry of wills.
I'm open to correction on this, but I think that the reason for making wills public after probate is precisely because we don't have a proper registration system; how can anyone challenge a will if they don't know what is in it?
If there was a proper register, it would contain (say) the name of the disponer, Solicitor (if applicable), executor, date of will. Something like that.
So if my Uncle Joe dies, and I expected to be left the farm, I can at least write to Solicitor / executor and lodge my claim/ caveat/ whatever.
Last edited:
fistophobia
Registered User
- Messages
- 391
I would be concerned about the personal safety issue.
Say a will is published in the paper, name and address are given.
People will know theres a lot of money given to the offspring, possible still living at same address, especially in rural areas.
Is there not a GDPR issue here?
Say a will is published in the paper, name and address are given.
People will know theres a lot of money given to the offspring, possible still living at same address, especially in rural areas.
Is there not a GDPR issue here?
Last edited:
To my knowledge addresses of beneficiaries or disponer aren't published in newspapers. The will is already public information once probate is completed.