Why would any woman ever join or vote for Fianna Fáil?

[cork]

As Averil Power found, party members don't exactly treat their female representatives with respect. ..

Averil Power had 73000 calendars printed at our expense for her ‘constituents’.

 

[RobFer]

If that were true (and I think you mean, ultimately the result reflects the choice of the electorate), there would be little or no difference between the parties.


I think you possibly need to research this a little further. Hostility and discrimination may be on the wane but they are still alive and kicking in Ireland (lovely example recently on Camden street of a women beaten up for being gay and unwilling to acquiesce to an unreasonable request from a lout). I would suspect more than one woman would question your assertion regarding the ability of women to follow their preferences and how those preferences are arrived at. The majority of home carers are women and not all of them have had much choice in the matter. Issues around childcare and elderly care affect women disproportionally, there is still a pay gap between men and women and low representation of women in careers as diverse as politics, literature and science as well as low representation of women in the upper echelons of most professions is not due to "when women have the choice their prefer female dominated professions". On International Women's Day - I would suggest you have a good look around.

Fundamentally women have been grossly under-represented in our legislature for decades - even with the increase in representation in the new Dáil they are still under-represented. This is not due to a preference for female dominated professions.

Women are grossly under-represented in the brick laying profession but I don't think that is any evidence that women face glass ceilings in brick laying. A recent study found that women actually have a hiring advantage in STEM [science, technology, engineering, and mathematics]. There is a large gap in pay between women and men but its mostly a product of women choosing more part-time work and less risky professions. The reality is choice is driving the gap, and every economist how examines this issue stresses this, but the progressive left isn't very fond of numbers. Women simply aren't clamouring to become TDs or enter the other male dominated jobs whether it is maths or oil roughneck work. Discrimination exists but its minor factor.

If that were true (and I think you mean, ultimately the result reflects the choice of the electorate), there would be little or no difference between the parties.


No she quoted the <ahem> resistance she encountered from the party regarding their lukewarm "support" of a yes vote in the marriage referendum. Band-wagon jumping springs to mind as an appropriate description of lip-service support of what was a popular cause among young people in particular.

Yes she cited the same-sex ref as a reason but that has nothing to do with whether or not FF is receptive to female TDs. She probably felt she belonged to a more leftist party. I am sure she is shocked by the FF resurgence.

 

[Vanessa]

Not strictly fair. Two examples: Garrett Fitzgerald entered government fully intending on getting divorce legalised in the 80's, Labour made explicit commitments on marriage equality prior to 2011. SOME politicians need nudging.

And then FG lost power because of a tax on childrens shoes. Gareth thought women with small feet could evade the tax if he excluded childrens shoes from the tax

 

[Leper]

Very interesting thread. Where I work there are far more women than men. Some of the women are members of political parties (well FG and FF). They canvass during elections and referenda. They openly debate topical points almost on a weekly basis. They are well informed people and can hold their own anywhere.

Then there are the likes of me, cynical, no support to any particular party, outspoken etc. I have put it to them that women are under-represented and under-performers in all our political parties. My political female colleagues informed me that they are involved in political parties to hasten change. They are probably right, get involved, make your mark, change what must be changed. But, most of us prefer to stay outside of political parties and just vote whatever way we feel at election time.

 

[Purple]

Women are grossly under-represented in the brick laying profession but I don't think that is any evidence that women face glass ceilings in brick laying. A recent study found that women actually have a hiring advantage in STEM [science, technology, engineering, and mathematics]. There is a large gap in pay between women and men but its mostly a product of women choosing more part-time work and less risky professions. The reality is choice is driving the gap, and every economist how examines this issue stresses this, but the progressive left isn't very fond of numbers. Women simply aren't clamouring to become TDs or enter the other male dominated jobs whether it is maths or oil roughneck work. Discrimination exists but its minor factor.


Yes she cited the same-sex ref as a reason but that has nothing to do with whether or not FF is receptive to female TDs. She probably felt she belonged to a more leftist party. I am sure she is shocked by the FF resurgence.

Good post Rob. Women do face sexism in many areas but attitudes towards men, by both women and other men, can be equally discriminatory. So-crates point regarding carers is well made and is not always down to choice but it is true to say that most (but not all) of the reasons for pay and participation gaps between men and women in the workforce are down to choice rather than discrimination.
A women getting attacked because she is gay isn't due to sexism, it's due to homophobic bigotry. Gay men are probably more likely to face such attacks by the same ignorant thugs.
A good measure of the power of a group within society is who spends the money. As most adverts are targeted towards women it is fair to say that the advertising industry regards them as the main spenders. Roll back to the 60's and 70's and most adverts were aimed at men.

 

[joe sod]

Is there also a case of straight men also being bullied because they are a bit unconventional, maybe they dress with more colour or longer hair, so therefore they will be branded as gay because people both male and female dont want men to be more adventurous. I think this is a new form of bullying

 

[Leo]

I think this is a new form of bullying

Unfortunately there's nothing new in bullying anyone who stands out from the crowd for whatever reason.

 

[S.L.F]

I don't see a connection between quotas and feminism as feminism is meant to be about equality. That said we do need more female TD's.

I don't see the connection between feminism and equality as it is feminists who are the ones who have insisted on gender quotas.

Just for reference women have been perfectly represented for for the simple reason that there is no one stopping women from signing up to be election candidates.

That has now changed in that they are insisting on gender quotas in parties.

FYI the number of female independents is what shows the interest women have in politics.

It was 15.6% last time I checked.

Can't the very same be said for men!

No, men apparently have privilege.

FF is hardly the most anti woman organisation that is widely supported by women. The Catholic church, Islam, the fashion industry are just three things that spring to mind.

The oppression of women is usually fully supported by women.

I'd argue that it is not oppression but women's own choices that keep them from attaining the great heights that a few small number of some men have achieved.

If that were true (and I think you mean, ultimately the result reflects the choice of the electorate), there would be little or no difference between the parties.

The electorate can only vote on what is put in front of them.

I think you possibly need to research this a little further. Hostility and discrimination may be on the wane but they are still alive and kicking in Ireland (lovely example recently on Camden street of a women beaten up for being gay and unwilling to acquiesce to an unreasonable request from a lout).

Claimed to have been assaulted.

Her black eye does not look convincing to me.

I also doubt that a scummer at 2am would be calling them "Feminist feckers".

Just like other feminist scare tactics this one looks as fake as fake can be.

If you want to see some serious violence look to what [broken link removed]

I would suspect more than one woman would question your assertion regarding the ability of women to follow their preferences and how those preferences are arrived at. The majority of home carers are women and not all of them have had much choice in the matter. Issues around childcare and elderly care affect women disproportionally, there is still a pay gap between men and women and low representation of women in careers as diverse as politics, literature and science as well as low representation of women in the upper echelons of most professions is not due to "when women have the choice their prefer female dominated professions". On International Women's Day - I would suggest you have a good look around.

Exactly what rights/opportunities do men have that women don't?

Re gender pay gap or rather the gender earnings gay see the [broken link removed]

Fundamentally women have been grossly under-represented in our legislature for decades - even with the increase in representation in the new Dáil they are still under-represented. This is not due to a preference for female dominated professions.

Ireland has the privilege of being one of the first countries in the world to have a female cabinet Minister.

Women are NOT under represented in the Dáil, is there anyone stopping women from nipping down to their local council offices and signing up to be election candidates?

Maybe there is some burly guy outside stopping them from signing up?

How is it that men have managed to get out of bed and go down and sign up when women just don't seem to have the interest?

but attitudes towards men, by both women and other men, can be equally discriminatory.

Attitudes towards men by men, women, government and society in general is appalling.

Men get 250% of the punishment for crimes in court (ie women get 40% of the punishment for the exact same crimes).

A husband can be convicted of raping his wife but the reverse does not apply.

Apparently female sex organs can't be used for rape.

A good measure of the power of a group within society is who spends the money. As most adverts are targeted towards women it is fair to say that the advertising industry regards them as the main spenders. Roll back to the 60's and 70's and most adverts were aimed at men.

A better measure of the power balance is to look who controls the children.

Men don't have automatic right to custody of their own children yet have a responsibility to provide maintenance even if they are not allowed to see their children by either the courts or the will of the mother.

Then of course the fact that in separation proceedings it is normally women who get sole custody of the children and fathers get part time access.

She who rocks the cradle rocks the world.