Why Turkey?

One point you should be aware of is that there is NO double taxation agreement in place between Ireland and Turkey. Any CGT will be subject to Both Irish and Turkish tax on top of the other related taxes, of which there are many.
 
I understand now Johnboy, but dumb money has been earned the hard way (or given on credit) and shouldn't be discounted. I was at a meeting, actually a couple of days worth, where a major investment firm were harping on about making a "landmark" development, that it would be exclusive, that it would be for the "top end" of the market, that (and this was said in the presence of our diplomatic rep here) "your man who owns 10 taxis and wants a Spanish type place to treat his mates to beer and golf isn't the target market".

could not agree more
 
One point you should be aware of is that there is NO double taxation agreement in place between Ireland and Turkey. Any CGT will be subject to Both Irish and Turkish tax on top of the other related taxes, of which there are many.
Can you list these other "many" related taxes?
 
If you are renting the property you would liable for individual income tax which varies from 15% - 40%
There are a number of varying issues pertaining to Corporation tax as some investors may see advantages of buying a property through an existing or newley created company. If you are buying privately this would not be applicable.
Stamp Tax varies from 0.15% - 0.75% and would be payable on a wide range of documents such as contracts, agreements, capital contributions, letters of credit, financial statements. I would suspect that a local solicitor acting on your behalf would incorporate such fees into the their fees.
Property Tax: this is paid at a rate varying from 0.1% - 0.6% each year on the tax values of land and builings. On the sale of a property a 1.5% levy is paid on the sales value by both seller and buyer. I believe that this may be doubled if the property is located in certain areas within major cities.
Environmental Tax: This is similar to rates and is payable to the local who decide what the rate will be.
Inheritence Tax - as far as I'm aware there is no inheritence tax payable by foreigners in Turkey but I could be misinformed

I realise much of the information above is vague as taxes in general are very rarely a clear cut procedure. hopefully this info may assist you in giving a general overview of the various taxes that would be applicable.

Regards
 
Are you working with foreign property Auto? Just out of interest, because I've seen what my colleagues go through, even when I've had to translate docu's etc, ther are not so many mugs, although the glossy brochure crowd will still make their dodgy sales to keep their cars out of hock.

I'm retired from the property business, except for occasional forays for myself or friends. I made a very good living from this business, but I didn't get involved in mass marketing of one-off properties to the public at large -- I specialised in sourcing property for large investor groups. I have watched with some interest the way that relatively recent entrants to the market, many with little or no knowledge, have managed to capture a high percentage of direct sales to small Irish buyers. Ther are some companies that have expertise and that do the best for their clients, but in my opinion the majority are entirely commission driven and will sell whatever gives them the best margin, witness the recent selling spree of essentially useless property in Bulgaria for instance.

For my own amusement, and because I still retain an interest, I post my opinions on this board in the vain hope that I will prevent an occasional "innocent abroad" from walking himself or herself into a lifetime of debt on a property that has no real nett worth. Judging by the PMs I get, many people take this advice, which is gratifying. Many more however will dispute what I say, either because they have (a) been completely taken over by a sales pitch, (b) have already bought a piece of junk and need to convince themselves that they have done the right thing, or (c) are in the business of selling such junk and need to try to negate the realistic view that I propound and get people back into cloud cuckoo land.

The other side of the coin is this: property, and overseas property in particular, can provide a sound nest egg and financial security for many people if they just use their heads when buying. People firstly need to understand the difference between "buying" and "investing" -- these are not the same. Any fool can, and frequently does,buy property. A shrewd person will buy with an open mind and a willingness to ask hard questions and get honest answers that can be verified. If someone offers me a property that has a "guaranteed rental" attached, I will want to do a due dilligence on the covenant and see the contract with the renter before I commit funds. I will only pay a multiple of the rental if it compares with what is being achieved in the local market; that is "being achieved" and not what some shiny arsed salesman just told me.

If you want to invest in (i.e. make money from) property in overseas markets, you just have to follow these rules:

1. Do your research, not just at property exhibitions or other sales driven venues.

2. If you want a holiday home anywhere and want to combine it with investment, go for capital gain and forget rentals, they are usually not a major feature of this market. Buy in markets like Spain where you will get good winter weather and where you can get there in a couple of hours -- buy in obscure markets and you won't get the use out of it. Buy in emerging areas or areas that have remained solid over time, and buy where possible under local market value. Righ now for instance, you can buy second hand property in many prime areas in Spain at lower prices than new "off-plan" property, but most people head straight for the latter, driven by marketing companies who get much higher commissions on new projects. There is plenty of value to be had if you just look a little harder.

3. If you want pure investment, go to major cities (London, Budapest, Frankfort, Riga, are among the best right now) where a real market exists, i.e. where ordinary people buy, sell, and rent property every day. Buy the best you can afford in the best area you can afford, furnish it tastefully but not expensively, and rent it. Be prepared to have occasional gaps in rental and budget for same. If it is not renting, decorate it and/or drop the price a little. Develop a good relationship with a management company (bring the person who looks after your property a small gift every time you visit), and don't expect them to work fulltime for you for 10% of your rent! Be reasonable. If you bought well, expect to sell easily in 8 to 10 years at good capital gains, with rents having made a substantial contribution to your costs.

4. Stay absolutely away from Bulgaria (except parts of Sofia), Turkey, Dubai, Cape Verde, and any other "next big thing" place that has people flocking to it like lemmings. Remember that you will never see the likes of big fund managers or your local pension fund buying some of this rubbish -- where they look at at all they run a sliderule over it and immediately discount it.

5. If you want to be a pioneer and take some risk, go to Romania and buy land on the coast, it's a volcano waiting to erupt. Particularly if you have larger sums to invest, there is nothing like it for a return. If you are a timid buyer with an SSIA you should probably forget this market, there is a bit of admin attached that will put many people off.

I have no doubt that the PR end of a few marketing companies will tee up a new poster to knock all this, but if it keeps someone out of trouble...
 
as some of you know I previously expressed an interest in turkey. alanya in particular. not as an investment but a winter bolthole. after reading a lot of warninings I have somewhat cooled but the fire still smolders underneath. I have two offspring who would make good use of it during the summer months ( one is a teacher and everyone know the three best reasons for teaching - june july and august) I would probably use it 3 times a year at most and only for a maybe 3 weeks at a time. Flights to Istanbul are now easy and relatively cheap ( €80 Return in January taxes included) but as Auto states flights to bodrum, antalya ,dalaman and izmir are a different story. the other point to bear in mind is that 'we are not alone' ie I checked out a couple of blocks in alanya that were for sale and 95% of them were already sold - to Danes, Finns, Swedes, Norwegians and surprisingly - to me anyway- Lithuanians. Paddy doesn't own the overseas buying market, and this is probably more true of Turkey than anywhere else. Anyway more enquires from me and I have cooled on alanya ( maybe its the paddy factor, the property was being built by an Irish builder) and checked out other areas. I quite like the calis area near fethiye ( dalaman airport!!) and another property. new three bedroom detached house with pool is £63000 sterling and all the info I can gleam on tax information is, €400 a year is pretty normal for maintainance and security, 3% property tax on buying -sometime split equally between buyer and seller, waste charges are around €20 per annum and if you hold the property for more than 4 years there is no turkish capital gains but of course there is Irish CTG. there is currenty no double taxation agreement in place between turkey and ireland but they are in 'talks' whatever that means. you need a visa to visit turkey and it cost €10 for 90 days, there is a 0.1% property tax based on the value of your apartment payable in two instalments. there is an environmental tax of around €100 per annum. if you rent the property ( doesn't apply in my case anyway) there is a tax of between 15% and 40% on the income. I am also looking at Spain and Portugal and you have to weigh up all the pros and cons. portugal has a pretty hefty 1.1% to 1.3% annual property tax and the Spanish tax on the notional value of renting the property. I am undecided. the jury is still out. I have no real fears about the turkish people or the religion thingy and from what I can ascertain the finish on the newer turkish propertys is up to western european standards. they have introduced something called TSE, where all the products that go into the building have to be of a certain standard,otherwise this certificate won't be issued. on the religious side its odd but the eu are probably the biggest culprits as they want Turkey to have freedom of all religion and in reality this means the muslim fundamentalists have a freerer reign than they were previously allowed especially by the army, who are the most trusted section of the government in Turkey.The ackwardness of the winter flights and the closeness of portugal and spain are a big consideration. and then there is the glut of propertys on the markets. plenty of rental potential without the hassle and you can go to different resorts each time . and let Eagle Star do the investing for you with your money instead.
 
I would like to hear all about investing in Turkey

Why Turkey? Have you investigated other opportunities and taken independent advice? Mass production is currently flooding the market with cheap one-offers sure to be gobbled up by novice buyers. Don't stuff your purchase up by rushing into things. Seek sage advice and give it some thyme.

Is it for your own use? Do you intend to share with friends and familty? Many buyers overstretch themselves and end up with something too big for their needs. It might be better to choose something smaller but with all the trimmings.

How will you access your purchase? The Turkey market is seasonal with limited flight.
 
Why Turkey? Have you investigated other opportunities and taken independent advice? Mass production is currently flooding the market with cheap one-offers sure to be gobbled up by novice buyers. Don't stuff your purchase up by rushing into things.

Is it for your own use? Do you intend to share with friends and familty? Many buyers overstretch themselves and end up with something too big for their needs. It might be better to choose something smaller but with all the trimmings.

How will you access your purchase? The Turkey market is seasonal with limited flight.

It is an independent question as part of an independent enonomic-political research. Because I live here I am blinded by positivie prejudice, I have tried not to engage in the discussion thus far but to generate it, I am pleased to read it all, debates about Turkey in general and through the accession talks process over the last ten years had invaluable positive impact on Turkish economic and political life, so thanks to Europeans;this one is another bit which will hopefully (if all goes well) give some form of guidance to the buyers and sellers of Turkish market.
It seems an appropriate point to express my own views as well. There seem to be a lot of missinformation and deep prejudice about Turkish real estate market and that is what I am trying to ascertain (e.g.is there prejudice really, are economic activities effected by political prejudice etc.). For example; %82 percent of holiday home owners in Turkey are Turkish, nobody seem to know this. There is a very strong domestic market.
I do agree with most cons stated above thus far. But the same deterrents do not seem to stop Irish purchasing in other more risky markets (terrorism/spain-London etc.). There seems to be a confussion as to pros and cons of why overseas and why Turkey. Turkey is as good as Spain to invest in my opinion, question the Irish buyer needs to answer is not "where" that much, it is "why abroad". I think that has been answered over and over, obsession with property and greed are on top of the list. Greed is what drives free market and it is okay within healthy limits.
4.400 hundred Irish bought in Turkey are hardly likely to loose any money and majority of them (specially Alanya and Bodrum purchasors) have made some very good investments. There has never been a downturn in property market in Turkey. It reached a peak yes, if you have a couple of years and realistic expectations you will be laughing, if you bought before 2005 you are laughing. This equation of Europe good/safe is a very dangerous assumption which landed many Central Europeans in some very hot waters.
Couple of tips,
If you are planning to buy a mortgage to fund your Turkish property buy it in İstanbul, same for rent expectations.
If you are happy with a steady good CG increase and a 3 months peak season rent per annum, the popular towns buy near the towns, ideally residental mix areas.
%50 only happened in Istanbul in 2005 to lucky few, %12 is more realistic expectation.
Stay well clear of any rental guarantee outside İstanbul.
Stay well clear off from off plan unless you are in the first %20 and property is near towns or residential.
Religion seem to be problem for the buyer, locals are quite happy to be muslims and have christian neighbours , they have been doing it since 1071 AD.
"Hinterland Turkey is 1000 years back", is the kind of missinformed snobery hurts Turkish people deeply.
EU accession is an issue troubles EU, Europeans and Turkish Government, not the Turks anymore. Turkey is doing it without the ECB lolies and other jucy subsidies from EU uınlike some of the new EU members and the the ones about to be, it is a resourcefull self sufficient country, trouble with Turkey is administration, corruption, military spending so on. Let us not go there now.
And please "Dubai, Turkey, Bulgaria", very very missinformed. Turkey, Romania, Croatia may be. Please keep posting or send pm'S, positive stories are welcome too. Almo you can be a fresh breath of air when you want to.
 
Amygdla, to answer your question. Yes I am an Irish/Turkish citizen who recently settled inTurkey after a decade and a half hopping around the world and Ireland. Hope that is not a problem.
 
The only problem I have is that you claimed to be an "independent researcher" with out stating possible areas of conflict such as you are Turkish.
 
"Because I live here I am blinded by positivie prejudice"
"It seems an appropriate point to express my own views as well
 
No real investors are going to turkey -- it is the preserve of amateurs who seem determined to lose as much money as possible, as quickly as possible.

A lot of the hype around Turkish property related to that country's proposed accession to the EU, not that that means anything if the fundamentals are flawed, but even that now seems to be on extended hold following recent pronouncements from Brusels.

The reality about markets like this is that they are for the unwise and the inexperienced; the smart money stays away.

No doubt a flurry of responses will say different; in my humble view these will have a couple of things in common:

1. They have already bought and are in denial about the prospects.

2. They are involved in selling this garbage!

At last some one with some sense!

I agree with you 100% on this issue. I have a friend that has bought a place out there and is moving with his wife and kids. He is a financial Lemming and only bought there on impulse. He's a 100% Muppet
 
Just out of interest,what is the weather like in turkey in winter.
I know it`s not like the canaries but is it dry or not too cold....talking about the med coastline.
Also if it gets cold.what to do?
I was in rhodes once.....had a chance to take a boat trip across to turkey but decided i`d take a separate holiday there sometime.....but haven`t managed it yet.
Do potential buyers of property get the " boiler room" treatment where they are whisked off to some hotel and have teams of salesmen work on them, including those from the buyers home district....like they did/do in timeshare/holiday clubs.....usually happens while buyer is relaxing on holiday near apartments touted.
If this is the case, avoid these sales talks like the plague because i have seen sensible people "persuaded" ...in these situations and indeed it is a relationship wrecker as the salesmen/women have no scruples in putting tension between a couple if they think it`s to their advantage.
My own rule of thumb is i want to be able to live like a local. I don`t want to be a rich foreigner able to live an isolated separate existence for the simple reason that i am of modest means.
 
Religion seem to be problem for the buyer, locals are quite happy to be muslims and have christian neighbours , they have been doing it since 1071 AD.
"Hinterland Turkey is 1000 years back", is the kind of missinformed snobery hurts Turkish people deeply. - from poster above

The population of Constantinople in 1914 was 50% Christian, now its 1%. It you're happy about priests being shot in the back while they're praying, buy away, but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Christianity is being choked off at its head - the Turkish government has shut down the Orthodos seminary and has refused to re-open it, while at the same time stipulating that the head of the Orthodox Church in Turkey has to be Turkish. The time is not too far off when the Orthodox Church will not have a head, which of course is the aim. The Catholic church is not recognised in Turkey. And Father Santoro certainly paid the ultimate price, being shot in the back while he was praying.

As for the accustion of snobbery, lol, you are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts, or was the article I linked to, and there are more on Google, lying?

And no, before everyone piles in, I am barely Christian, but I do not like muslim disregard of human rights.
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I visited a Catholic Church in Instanbul recently. St Anthony of Padua I think it was. on the equivelant of Grafton Street. it was open at around 10pm at night when we came out of a nearby restaurant. I wasn't out looking at property or anything. it was Mrs Cu's birthday present. I just happened to be there as well :) . and there was other people coming and going into this church. Didn't see the turks having a problem with it. visited a mosque too of course and while it said in the books that bare arms were frowned upon nobody said anything to either of us ( it was over 23% and we were both wearing t-shirt type clothes).wouldn't let a visit to istanbul influence me anyway. much more european in attitude compared to other parts I would guess. At around 2 -3 am in the morning could have been in any european city. full of young people on the streets. lots of cops. no violence.
 
I will admit I have never been to Turkey before I make any comments,
but I still have a couple of questions about Turkey and Turkish property.

How much of the property has been sold to Irish and Brits on the premise that Turkey is about to join the EU?
The prices have been jacked up using the ruse that Turkey is only few years from EU membership.
Maybe it is just me, but I believe that due to the political climate over last few years it is as likely as North Korea being given the status of Puerto Rico by the USA.

Second what is the build quality of most of this property?
Afterall Turkey sits on or near major fault lines and earthquakes do happen.

Still maybe it is a better bet than the Black sea coast of Bulgaria.
 
SUNROCK: Weather on the west coast in the winter is very much like spring in Ireland, rainy days not too cold, some dry spells between november up to mid April, when it is dry it is Irish summer like this year, we swam untill november this year but is a warm year.South has shorter winter but much more wet, hence the bananas.
Potential buyers do get the boiler room treatment in the form of Inspection trips, you are likely to be harrassed if you go yourself and mention looking at property. If you are on holiday you would be fine.Inspection trip is an intense short bussiness trip where you will suffer a good deal of pressure by mostly a good looking Brit or Irish or an odd Turk with British accent, they pay your trip they put you in flash hotels etc and want their money's worth. But the seen is not like the time share meetings. It is a hard sale environment, expect anything. If you want to live like a local, hop on a plane, take a bus to a place of choice and engage with locals, there is not anybody more respected then a visitor interested in them in this country.
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SILVESTER: Unfortunately the population of christians did dicrease; aboriginal christians of Istanbul paid a heavy price for colloborating with British during the invasion of Istanbul in WW1; expulsion, oppression, religious discrimination, pogroms followed. Hundreds of thousands of christians and kurdish and Turkish muslims killed each other in and around 1915, Kurds had been promised land in return for the expulsion and slaughter of Armenians.
Ordinary Turk is very worried about a priest or anybody being shot in the back. It is an act of terror and it is very very unfair and ignorant to assume that it is proven to be a religious act. Forerunners of change in Turkey face a double war, the prejudice and denial of the onlooker (e.g.yourselves) and the oppression of political and cultural athmosphere. Opposition to closing of the seminary is one of the strugles intellectuals had to give as the chrisrtian elite rich looked on for the last 15 years. Ortodox chruch requested an independent state and status same as the head of chatolic church within Istanbul, religious government backed by USA backlashed by demanding a Turk to be the head of the church which landed them in an embarrassing place ; all christians are citizens as well.But I do agree that the aim of the government may be to eliminate the church all together. It is a religious party, they are in power with %23 of the votes half of which, suprisingly enough, came from Kurdish areas. I do not like disregard for human rights in any form either, we just need to learn not to couple every act of terror and violation of human rights with Islam. The war against Irak is running in the name of christianıty and God in the USA as well. I have no religion and this should not be a religious debate.Thus informed debate is more effective then cliche attacks, you might find your opponent agreeing with you.
JMAYO: No. of English bought up to date is around 12.000 and 4400 Irish bought by September 2006. Number of holiday homes vary but the the land registry office put it around 400.000. I would say all were sold to Eurpeans on the promise of accession to EU. Most Turks would agree with you that membership is a far away dream which only the government is having at this stage.It is fast becoming a nighmare for Turkish people.Quality of building vary, there is new standards institute certificate thing, buildings 5 years and less in developments and old traditional stone houses tend to be better quality. Country has massive stone reserves near the west coast and some properties are made of stone for a fraction of difference in the price. I would not rely on earthquake proof stories even it is a good quality building. Eartquakes are a reality as the plane crashes, there is no crash proof plane there is no earthquake proof house, they can only be improved.. South coast is the only place out of the fault lines.Better bet is the buyers choice.
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Could I ask that people stick to the topic please, i.e. why/why not to invest in Turkey and not why there is a war in Iraq.

Thanks.
 
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