television
Registered User
- Messages
- 386
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on whether property investment is a good investment at present.
Prevent/encourage banks from over tightening their credit strings for starters.
If the banks ain't giving out money, people can't do much - it's not just the mortgage market that gets hit, all business day to day, all consumer spending, enterprise etc
There are a lot of people who were not irresponsible with their spending, yet they are getting punished for others mistakes.
Banks will still lend, however they are finally becoming more prudent in how much they lend and who they will lend to. People who want to borrow responsibly will still be accomodated.
+1
exactly - Bank lending is only at present reaching what is normality i.e. no 100% mortgages - having to have a substantial deposit and interest rates which are "normal" as opposed to the historically low ones we had which did not suit our economic cycle thus infating the bubble even further. Bank lending and ease of credit was TOO loose
No, we are in aggreement that it is certainly a pretty stupid investment now. But this will change as more people enter the rental market and the stock of houses avalible decreases. especially in the Dublin area this will have to mean increased rents, which will do two things tempt people abck into the buying market or temps investors into the market to take advantage of a reluctance of others to buy.
1) I know D McW said there was a problem in 2001, 7 years ago. Can anyone back up claims that he said this 15 or 12 years ago.
2) Prices are nearly back to 2004 levels and will fall further. McWilliams was right day one, he couldn't predict that the mania would last so long. Inflation adjusted prices could easily fall to 2001 levels if not further. This isn't a case of "he had to be right sometime", he was right, full stop. He knew the real fundamentals were out of whack, while Dan, Austin, Bertie etc. continually maintained the false illusion of the fabled soft landing. (funny how none of the bulls mention that these days)
.
rents will have to increase by 1.5 times before it will tempt people back into buying
http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=ct1&s[search_type]=rental&s[a_id]=ga1&s[furn]=&s[refreshmap]=1&limit=10&search_type=rental&id=597445
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=ct1&s[search_type]=sale&s[a_id]=ga1&s[furn]=&s[refreshmap]=1&limit=10&search_type=sale&id=389513
2,300 per month to rent , 3,100 to buy, go figure
I4)
The bottom line is that house prices are way too expensive due to the nauseating greed of the "risk takers". We have gotten ourselves into an awful situation, payback is going to be a b itch.
I moved back to Ireland in mid 2001, ....etc.
He said it long before Gaybo left office I remember it well it must have been 10 years ago minimum
I'm laughing out loud at your posts. You really are one of those smart ballsy guys aren't you? What a heroExcellent post not. If house prices are expencive everyone shoulders the balme
A wonderful piece of honest and open writing written by what could be described as a vested interest having purchased before the massive boom yet is still able to speak honestly about the market and the mess that has been created. Well done tkc, an excellent post
It's all very well and brave to say that "prices must come down" if you don't have a house or you bought one years ago. Not so good if you are a poor young couple who scraped together some money to buy an investment property as a nest egg in the last few years based on the advice of the experts. If it seems there will be negative growth in property crash - and yes, I still do believe it can be avoided and we can pull back form the brink if the media row back on the negative talk and this nation pulls together and helps each other - then perhaps these experts should be made to account for themselves in front of a tribunal. However, that does not mean praising those such as McWilliams who were unrealistically negative about the property market for years and years. And I still think we should avoid overly negative comments that might frighten the horses. We need some balance here, folks. I for one will vote for whichever political party puts those at danger of negative equity first in their election manifesto. I can see it as an issue that the PDs could make a comeback on.
I'm laughing out loud at your posts. You really are one of those smart ballsy guys aren't you? What a hero
Gaybo left in 1999 which is 9 years ago now. I'd be interested if anyone could specifically remember a year when DMcW offered an opinion and what he said.
The Bacon reports came out in 1998 and 1999 so there were major concerns even back then about house prices. We could potentially get back to those inflation adjusted levels if we have a Japanese style meltdown. People have no problem with prices going up several hundred per cent, but cannot envisage a 50% or 70% fall.
I suppose my point on McWilliams and the bear economists would be that they said there would be a correction at some stage because prices were out of whack, and that they're saying now the correction could be massive because the mania went on for much longer than they thought possible.
The bull economists maintained right to the end that due to strong "fundamentals" the worst case scenario was a soft landing where prices would level off and increase at the rate of inflation. They then modified this to be flat prices for a while followed by increases in line wth inflation. Now they're saying that there would always have been a correction (using that as a way to diss McW), but that it won't last long.
I know which economist has the most credibility in my eyes.
Ironically having said that, if McW advocated not buying in 98/99 that would probably not have been a wise move. I reckon he saw a crash coming within three years or so, he didn't foresee the mania going on this long.
Good economists do not just predict house prices. They look at all the fundementals in the economy and make judgements about future trends (among other things obviously). McWilliams got the medium term completly wrong. Ten years ago if you followed his advice and rented, think about how absolutly sickened you would be today.
DMcW said house prices were over inflated in 1999/2000 and they have continued to be inflated and still are today. This does not mean he was wrong in the medium term, it just means that the Irish public didn't listen and prices were let run wild.
The question is, should we have listened to him then and not let the market grow to such an unsustainable level?
My feeling is, if the irish public had of listened to him at any point in the last 10 years, we'd be in a better situation than we are now.
House prices were low in Ireland compared to europe, not undervalued. House prices were low because wages were low.House prices were undervalued in 1999 in Ireland in comparison to Europe. McWilliams got it wrong and house prices shot up. end of story.
He is full of hyperbol. Yes now he can say he was right, but then it does not take an economic genious to look around and see what happening and say prices are going to fall.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?