ubiquitous
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I remember McWilliams probably 12 years ago sayign that house prices in Dublin are grossly overvalued. I did nt listen to him then, thank God. He had to get it right at some stage if he kept banging on. And just to be clear, im listening to David now, and so should everyone else.
By the way, iirc McWilliams was not even living in Ireland 12 years ago let alone featuring in the media. He did say around 1998 that property in Ireland was overvalued at the time relative to other economies. He was correct in saying so. The fact that the irrational exuberance continued for another decade afterwards does not necessarily alter that fact.
But this crash has alot to do with huge rise in oil, american credit crunch, gradual increase in european interest rates, none of which mcwilliams forsaw, hes now happy to sit back and say he told you so.
Not correct. McWilliams repeatedly warned over the years about the dangers faced by Ireland by losing control of our interest rate policies and being tied into interest rates set by the Germans and French, whose economic cycle is radically different to ours.
I think it was keynes that said 'Markets can remain irrational far longer than you can remain solvent'.
In the long run property is a pretty safe bet. I think it was me who said that. The doom and gloom merchants are having their day now but in ten years time if you can afford to hold on property in Ireland is as safe as houses. Not saying that gives much support to the people who bought at the top of the market, but its a fact.
[broken link removed]Wheres your proof for this.
Can a highly competitive economy with record export growth and growing international market share go into a slump? It certainly can. Japan is now in its tenth year of economic stagnation, banks are still filing for bankruptcy and, throughout the economy, bad debts continue to rise.
....
Japan of the late 1980s was experiencing a huge asset price boom and stocks were going through the roof, allowing Japanese companies to buy trophy assets abroad such as the Rockefeller Centre and MGM. Bulging Japanese banks dwarfed their European and US counterparts and threatened to dominate in the City and Wall Street. Most spectacular of all was the Tokyo property market. In 1990, the land upon which the imperial palace in Tokyo was built was valued at more than the entire real estate of Canada, the second largest country in the world.
So what went wrong? Why is Japan down in the dumps and why did the world's most awesome economic power crumble in a matter of a few years? More interestingly, if global competitiveness is so important, how come Japan continued to have the world's largest trade surplus, never dropping a notch in competitiveness throughout the 1990s, and still manage to experience a domestic depression? Finally, should we therefore entertain the prospect of a "competitive recession"?
There are three broad reasons put forward to explain the persistent Japanese slump despite huge government spending, a collapsed currency and low interest rates. The first focuses on the banks. It is argued that because the banks lent hand over fist to finance property and share transactions, they were left with huge bad loans and are practically bankrupt. They are now in no position to lend new cash. Thus the supply of credit is a problem.
....
In Japan, two economies operated side by side. Alongside the high-productivity, high-tech exporting sector was a slow, corrupt, uncompetitive domestic services economy. Unfortunately, this latter sector and its employees believed the miracle story and spent as if they were all working for Sony, Hitachi or Mitsubishi. The banks lent huge amounts to the property market and commercial developers were seen as the best bet.
Things started to go pear-shaped with the mini US recession of the Bush years. Sadly, when the bubble finally burst, people in the low-productivity services sector who had seen their wages rise steadily, realised too late that their houses were built of sand. When hard times hit, the domestic economy was neither solvent nor sufficiently innovative to recover. Japan's exporting sector continued to be a world beater, notching up a trade surplus of $125 billion this year alone. But the tired, indebted, domestic economy -- which employs the vast majority of people -- has never recovered and remains insecure and depressed.
Therefore, economic statistics on things such as export growth are "virtual" in that they are of no relevance whatsoever to the life of a man facing 20 years of negative equity. What scares me is that the Japanese model of two economies fits Ireland. This week I visited IBM, one of the world's leading high-tech companies and one of the biggest employers in North West Dublin. Getting to IBM's futuristic campus by 9am demanded an arduous journey across Dublin at peak traffic hours.
The journey was like passing through one world to arrive at another. My taxi, which arrived one hour late and took over an hour and a half to get to Mulhuddart, sneaked its way through a rainy city reminiscent of Caracas with little public transport and full of traffic, fumes, beggars and stressed drivers fit to be tied. I arrived in a tranquil, clean, modern world -- more Southern Ontario than South America. Here the productivity miracle can be seen in operation where educated workers are doing their stuff.
However, in the evening these workers return, as if through some invisible border, to the overpriced, uncompetitive, rip-off economy where people are borrowing like there's no tomorrow, the infrastructure is creaking and industrial unrest is the order of the day.
Today's Ireland looks, smells and feels like Japan in the late 1980s Japan. Every time I see the excellent "Take five @ £200,000" piece in the Irish Times property section, in which a two up, two down in Stoneybatter costs as much as a chateau in Provence, I think of Tokyo's imperial palace and Canada around 1990.
It isn't a fact it is an opinion.
There have plenty of examples around the world where over a 10 year period property has been a terrible investment.
I would say after the largest property bubble the world has ever seen the next 10 maybe even 15 years will be worse than any other 10 year period.
My bet is that nominal prices will not return to 2006 until after 2016.
I think it will be the worst performing asset class over over that period.
Your forgetting one simple thing. The law of supply and demand. Population of ireland set to double in 30 years. Need I say more. 3 more years of stagnation followed by decent growth.
Your forgetting one simple thing. The law of supply and demand. Population of ireland set to double in 30 years. Need I say more. 3 more years of stagnation followed by decent growth.
IMO Property prices will NOT beat inflation over the next 15 years because if they do very few will be able to afford a property.
We binged on credit for too long and now we have to face the consequences
Tell that to the Japanese, where there are into their 19th year of house price deflation (depsite a few upward bumps along the way). All the signs now are of another downturn in Japan.In the long run property is a pretty safe bet. I think it was me who said that. The doom and gloom merchants are having their day now but in ten years time if you can afford to hold on property in Ireland is as safe as houses. Not saying that gives much support to the people who bought at the top of the market, but its a fact.
If you bought at the top of the market then perhaps. Another thing is that yes supply will increase but land amounts are finate. especially in cities. And even if we build up which I doubt, there will always be a market for houses with a guarden in the future. Maybe I am being nieve but I am pretty sure I will be right in the long run.
rule for me is,
Houses near good transport with garden close to city centre are a winner in long run and in three years, this is what i will be buying ( I was goingt o buy in a year)
With a population growth rate of less than long-term replacement (1.9 births per woman), you are largely relying on immigration to achieve this figure. This would be of the order of 2 some percent of the population every year until 2030. Do you really see this as sustainable?Your forgetting one simple thing. The law of supply and demand. Population of ireland set to double in 30 years. Need I say more. 3 more years of stagnation followed by decent growth.
In the long run property is a pretty safe bet. I think it was me who said that. The doom and gloom merchants are having their day now but in ten years time if you can afford to hold on property in Ireland is as safe as houses.
Tell that to the Japanese, where there are into their 19th year of house price deflation (depsite a few upward bumps along the way). All the signs now are of another downturn in Japan.
I'm sure that had been said by many in japan over the years since their own property bubble. Property is a as safe as houses? As someone sle said there are plenty of examples where over 10 year periods property has not beaten inflation. In terms of the apartment market, for example, many blocks that were built over the past 5-10 years no longer conform to minimum standards that were introduced lately (may well have been locking the gate after the horse had bolted but thats another debate). Do you see these as safe investments?
I'm not a doom and gloom merchant, I'm a realist.
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