Why not call in the IMF? Whats the downside?

[ivor james]

Re: So, what's the problem with the IMF?

All of that may well be true meatmonger,but the fact remains that when people start to get thrown out of their houses en-masse there will be anarchy! Of that you can be certain.

 

[VOR]

Re: So, what's the problem with the IMF?

Or an "IMF RIOT" as this piece calls it.
[broken link removed]

 

[Ethan 1]

For all the brave souls wishing the IMF would arrive, take a look at the following documentary.

[broken link removed]

educate yourself before you make naive statements.

 

[RMCF]

Cant understand those calling for the IMF to come in.

It seems to be based on a vindictiveness towards the public service from what I read into it, which is silly, cos if the IMF come in here, no-one will touch Ireland with a barge pole and the country will go back decades.

Making our own painful cuts is best

 

[z107]

Cant understand those calling for the IMF to come in.

They will do a far better job than the current government are.

I doubt anyone actually wants tax increases and swingeing cuts, but they are on the horizon. I'd rather the IMF sorts this out rather than wait for the government to completely destroy Ireland (it they haven't already)

The longer the current government are in power, the more bitter the medicine will have to be.

 

[RMCF]

They will do a far better job than the current government are.

I doubt anyone actually wants tax increases and swingeing cuts, but they are on the horizon. I'd rather the IMF sorts this out rather than wait for the government to completely destroy Ireland (it they haven't already)

The longer the current government are in power, the more bitter the medicine will have to be.

The Gov are getting a lot of abuse for their cutbacks and how much pain its causing/going to cause.

You aint seen pain til you've seen IMF pain.

 

[thedaras]

Who?? who will suffer the pain??
Would it be anyone overpaid and underworked?

 

[RMCF]

It may be, but these folk are the ones who are going to get hit hardest in the next few budgets I'd say.

The Gov know the public sector costs far too much, and they will have to try to address this, despite what the unions will have to say about it.

But still would be better for the Gov to tackle it than the IMF.

 

[Towger]

But still would be better for the Gov to tackle it than the IMF.

That is very true, but do you honestly see the government (current and future) doing so. At best they would take years and all the time the problem will get worse and the cuts will end up having to go deeper.

 

[thedaras]

I doubt very much that any government would tackle this situation.
Mainly because the unions are so strong here,and change would be impossible to implement..
If/when the IMF come here,there will be no negotiating...

 

[Shakespeare]

Is it not also true though that if the IMF did have to come in, any few cent you may have managed to save in any of our financial institutions could be wiped out?

 

[RMCF]

The unions will have to decide whether its better to advise their members to take cuts by the Irish Gov with each budget, and keep their jobs, or stand firm and wait til the country goes bankrupt, then see how many survive with their jibs after the IMF arrive.

As for the idea of losing your savings if the IMF intervened, not sure about this. Surely they can't take away peoples savings?

 

[csirl]

Two points.

Firstly, does the IMF have a magic potion that can be used on unions to stop industrial unrest? My guess is that if they came in here and fired public servants, the remainder would go on strike in sympathy. Ireland is not like some developing nations where you can send the army onto the streets to shoot/detain anyone who protests or goes on strike.

Secondly, at the risk of starting a constitutional law debate, Ireland is not like other countries where the organs of the state are above the citizens in the pecking order. We are unique in that absolute sovereignty is vested in the citizens, so the organs of the state are below the citizens. This means that, unlike most other countries, the state cannot restrict in law a citizens right to sue and claim compensation. It can also be forced to perform contracts it has with its citizens - unlike other places whereby they can just change the law. People on this thread have alluded to pensions etc. being cut, savings being taken etc.. In a lot of cases this could leave the government, and the IMF itself, open to legal actions that would make the army deafness claims look like small change.

Wouldnt it be ironic if the IMF was bankrupt by compensation claims? My guess is that the most the government can do is seek non-binding advice from the IMF. If I were the IMF there is no way I'd come to directly run Ireland due to the legal risks involved.

 

[Purple]

The issue of how debt management, and government bond default, will affect our sovereignty is interesting. The once great Ottoman Empire was carved up not by nations (although Catherine the Great of Russia did give it a go)but by its bond holders, mainly French and British, and culminated in the Anglo-French occupation of Egypt.
I’m not saying that we will see any gunboat diplomacy but in the end he who pays the piper calls the tune. Without money governments are powerless, leaders cannot lead. The best historic example of this that I can think of is England after the restoration; the only power parliament took from the crown was the right to levy taxes because that’s all they needed.

 

[z107]

Firstly, does the IMF have a magic potion that can be used on unions to stop industrial unrest? My guess is that if they came in here and fired public servants, the remainder would go on strike in sympathy. Ireland is not like some developing nations where you can send the army onto the streets to shoot/detain anyone who protests or goes on strike.

Why do you think this?
We're probably going to get some degree of social unrest at some stage. Why do you not think the army will be used? That is one of the main functions of the army after all.
What really separates us from developing countries? - money?

 

[csirl]

Why do you think this?
We're probably going to get some degree of social unrest at some stage. Why do you not think the army will be used? That is one of the main functions of the army after all.
What really separates us from developing countries? - money?

I dont think our army would take an aggressive stance against any protests and be willing to kill people - and rightly so. I also dont think that it is right to force people to work or else they lose their life or liberty.

 

[Chris]

Why do you think this?
We're probably going to get some degree of social unrest at some stage. Why do you not think the army will be used? That is one of the main functions of the army after all.

No it is not and should never be a funciton of the military. The military's function is to provide protection from foreign aggression. Soldiers are not trained in law enforcement and should never be used for this purpose, especially not in public protests.

What really separates us from developing countries? - money?

By that I assume you mean lack of money. Ireland as a whole is one of the most indebted nations on earth. There are many developing countries that are in far better financial situations than Ireland.

 

[Kev]

Then why is Ireland sending so much money abroad by way of foreign aid.

 

[RMCF]

Then why is Ireland sending so much money abroad by way of foreign aid.

Because it would be embarrassing if we announced we were so broke that we couldn't even donate money to starving people, even though I'd guess a lot of money goes to corrupt officials, Govs etc.

 

[Kev]

I think charity begins at home, on the site months age there were pensioners at their wits end because they did not know where the next meal was goiing to come from..

Countries that are getting aid I think is India and I also think China these are big economy now so why is Ireland giving money to countries like this, but there again I could be wrong the counties above may not be getting foreign aid from Irealnd. Does anyone know who is benefiting from Irish aid in foreign countries.