Why isn't the house on the Property Price Register?

[twofor1]

When we were buying our current house I was amazed at the amount of times houses we knew had sold weren't appearing on the PPR. However they did tend to appear in an unusual (wrong) spelling and the database seems to be very strict in its searching so "St" wouldn't show up "Saint" and Hollybank would appear but not Holly Bank, it happened so often I'm sure there was something dodgy going on but probably mostly to protect estate agents rather than frustrate the tax man.

For this reason I don’t use [broken link removed] preferring https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/ It’s easier to use and shows all sales in a particular area, street etc without having to try several formats of the address.

From their FAQ’s

Q. Why does the site exist?
A. The initial site started because the data in the register was (and is) not clean. Some just have different capitalisations, others have slightly different ways of writing the addresses, making grouping or matching hard, others have spelling mistakes……………...

 

[torblednam]

a couple of years later? id wager the 100k + the fine was a net loss on that basis.

I'm not sure whether you're saying a net loss to the tax defaulter, or revenue?

If the tax defaulter, yes he almost certainly ended up at a net loss, probably 50% tax, the same again in penalties, and 10% a year in simple interest, he definitely ended up worse off than if he had never done any nixers.

If you are saying it's a net loss to Revenue, I'd be interested to see how you work that out. You hardly think that just because the process took a couple of years from start to finish, someone's full time job was pursuing this one relatively small and straightforward audit?! Being very generous, and based on a penalty that indicates a lack of cooperation which would naturally increase the work involved, you could very conservatively guesstimate it at 3-4 weeks work for someone. I know our civil service are reasonably well paid but >25k a week would be a bit OTT

I'd say that the net "profit" to the exchequer would be well north of 80% after absorbing every overhead you could think of, including the cost of having to go through a proportion of dud reports to find the good one, and the opportunity cost (of the resources used in pursuit of that case) was negative. There's also benefit from intangible and hard to measure things, like the impact on other people's behaviour when everyone in the pub is talking about yer man over the road who got stung for 120k...

 

[Leesider32]

Related question but didn't want to open up another thread. How long on average does it take for a property to appear on the property price register after going sale agreed?

Thinking of moving and want to see what similar houses are going for in our area and ones in the area we would like to move to.

Thanks

 

[RedOnion]

Related question but didn't want to open up another thread. How long on average does it take for a property to appear on the property price register after going sale agreed?

It could take months!
It's updated primarily on the back of Stamp Duty returns. Stamp duty is only paid after the sale closes.

 

[galway_blow_in]

It could take months!
It's updated primarily on the back of Stamp Duty returns. Stamp duty is only paid after the sale closes.

the purchase of my mothers new house only officially closed March 5th gone by , its already on property price register

seems to be no real consistent time frame for these things ?

 

[RedOnion]

the purchase of my mothers new house only officially closed March 5th gone by , its already on property price register

So it wasn't on the PPR before 5th March?? The question asked was how long does it take from 'sale agreed'.

Today is 27th March, so it would make sense that it should appear by now. The buyers solicitor was probably on the ball, and paid stamp duty immediately. The PPR isn't updated every night, so it would have been there on the next cycle after the SD return.

 

[galway_blow_in]

So it wasn't on the PPR before 5th March?? The question asked was how long does it take from 'sale agreed'.

Today is 27th March, so it would make sense that it should appear by now. The buyers solicitor was probably on the ball, and paid stamp duty immediately. The PPR isn't updated every night, so it would have been there on the next cycle after the SD return.

yeah i read that wrong , thought the question was how long after sale closes

impossible to say how long after sale agreed as a place could be sale agreed for quite a long time for various reasons

 

[Marco 1972]

Wish the register listed number of bedrooms etc , it's very crude and you need to know beforehand a particular propertys details to make any sense of it, myhome do a more detailed breakdown..

 

[Leesider32]

Wish the register listed number of bedrooms etc , it's very crude and you need to know beforehand a particular propertys details to make any sense of it, myhome do a more detailed breakdown..

Yeah, that's why I am looking at daft to keep a track of houses we would consider buying and also ones similar to what we are selling. There can be a big difference in size and BER even if you do know the number of bedrooms so need to track all of that too.

 

[galway_blow_in]

its often difficult to distinguish between a house and an apartment on the PPR on some sites , not enough detail

 

[noproblem]

A very good friend told me he got X amount for a house over a year ago, saw it on the register showing €25k less. Do I believe him? Yes, I do but I didn't ask him about how the deal was done. Is it happening a lot? Probably.

 

[RedOnion]

A very good friend told me he got X amount for a house over a year ago, saw it on the register showing €25k less. Do I believe him? Yes, I do but I didn't ask him about how the deal was done. Is it happening a lot? Probably.

Out of interest, was it a rural or urban house?

 

[noproblem]

A rural house but an urban owner

 

[RedOnion]

There could be a perfectly legitimate reason. As an example, if the site is more than 1 acre, there are 2 separate stamp duty returns, so the PPR will only include the 'house' element.

 

[noproblem]

There could be a perfectly legitimate reason. As an example, if the site is more than 1 acre, there are 2 separate stamp duty returns, so the PPR will only include the 'house' element.

Of course you're correct but in this instance i'm pretty sure that was not the case. By the way, the sum involved wasn't petty cash.

 

[RedOnion]

By the way, the sum involved wasn't petty cash.

I thought it was only 25 grand?!

There are lots of legitimate reasons that the value for stamp duty could be less than the sale price. They're not all cash under the table deals, but they obviously do happen. Outside of scenarios where a seller has to give the entire proceeds to the bank to settle a debt, and wants some cash for themselves to start again, there are very limited circumstances where there's enough motivation to get all parties involved to agree to an envelope of cash changing hands.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

there are very limited circumstances where there's enough motivation to get all parties involved to agree to an envelope of cash changing hands.

For sure it still happens.

I had always heard that the reduction in stamp duty from 7% to 1% (2008 I think) had done away with a lot of incentives there though.

Everything on PPR is subsequent to that of course.

 

[noproblem]

I thought it was only 25 grand?!

There are lots of legitimate reasons that the value for stamp duty could be less than the sale price. They're not all cash under the table deals, but they obviously do happen. Outside of scenarios where a seller has to give the entire proceeds to the bank to settle a debt, and wants some cash for themselves to start again, there are very limited circumstances where there's enough motivation to get all parties involved to agree to an envelope of cash changing hands.

Hardly petty cash, but I get your point

 

[SPC100]

Maybe a 25k defect between sale agreed and closing was discovered and renegotiated?

Maybe buyer pulled out and they went with underbidder?

Maybe your friend rounded up in your chat?

What happens with contents value these days? Could they have been sold separately?