Why is there a Labour Shortage?

Silversurfer said:
Savilles had an interesting report published and yes they are estate agents however there are no homes available for 3 out of every 4 people.
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Only if you believe their attention grabbing headline assumed all these people wanted to live in a house on their own!
 
Leo said:
Only if you believe their attention grabbing headline assumed all these people wanted to live in a house on their own!
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Young people starting out usually do. I don’t think they are referring to older house buyers.
 
Leo said:
Young people starting out usually live in a 2+ bedroom house on their own? It was years of sharing before I could afford to live in a property on my own.

Read the report, the 4-1 statistic does not refer to house buyers at all.
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I'd seen it reported as 1 new build for every 4 people (population growth exceeding building by 4 to 1). So it's just referring to 'people', no distinction of whether they're looking for a house or not.
 
losttheplot said:
I'd seen it reported as 1 new build for every 4 people (population growth exceeding building by 4 to 1). So it's just referring to 'people', no distinction of whether they're looking for a house or not.
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Yeah, that was it exactly. Some are confusing it as 1 house delivered per 4 prospective buyers, and most seem to ignore household size stats.
 
Leo said:
Yeah, that was it exactly. Some are confusing it as 1 house delivered per 4 prospective buyers, and most seem to ignore household size stats.
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The report refers to ‘Housing Growth v Population Growth’. Also ‘Housing Supply Challenge’. With a ratio of 4.1 on par with Canada. If you wish to define that as a house, apartment or a tent. My original comment stands. We have no where to house migrant workers.
 
Silversurfer said:
The report refers to ‘Housing Growth v Population Growth’. Also ‘Housing Supply Challenge’. With a ratio of 4.1 on par with Canada. If you wish to define that as a house, apartment or a tent. My original comment stands. We have no where to house migrant workers.
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And yet we need the migrant workers to build the houses we don't have the skillset to build ourselves. And I see no shortage of rented houses and migrants heading off in the morning in their hi-viz jackets. No different to many Irish people in the UK in the 70's and 80's.
 
thedaddyman said:
And yet we need the migrant workers to build the houses we don't have the skillset to build ourselves. And I see no shortage of rented houses and migrants heading off in the morning in their hi-viz jackets. No different to many Irish people in the UK in the 70's and 80's.
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That is on the presumption they would like to go home in the future.
 
Silversurfer said:
My original comment stands.
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Your original comment was 'there are no homes available for 3 out of every 4 people'. That is only true if all the migrants you speak of wish to rent an entire property on their own. The average household size here is 2.74.
 
Leo said:
Your original comment was 'there are no homes available for 3 out of every 4 people'. That is only true if all the migrants you speak of wish to rent an entire property on their own. The average household size here is 2.74.
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We have people living in tents on our streets, refugee camps, emergency accommodation, hotels, B&B’s and 8 to a one bed apartment in bunk beds. Do you have a current source for 2.74 being the average household? If it is the CSO or the census those living in the above scenarios would not have participated.
 
Silversurfer said:
We have people living in tents on our streets, refugee camps, emergency accommodation, hotels, B&B’s and 8 to a one bed apartment in bunk beds. Do you have a current source for 2.74 being the average household? If it is the CSO or the census those living in the above scenarios would not have participated.
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The vast majority of people do not live in those conditions and so the inclusion or exclusion is not statistically relevant.

There are around 14,000 people in emergency accommodation in Ireland out of a population of 5.25 million. That's a very low figure by international standards.

Just like every other rich successful country that people want to come and live in we have problems providing accommodation for migrants and international protection order applicants.

We didn't have an accommodation problem when 40,000-50,000 people were leaving the country every year and our net population was static. Other countries with static populations are generally not experiencing accommodation shortages.

The reduction in the average household size over the last 30-40 years has consumed approximately half of all of the residential properties we have built without housing any more people so that statistic really matters.
 
Purple said:
The vast majority of people do not live in those conditions and so the inclusion or exclusion is not statistically relevant.

There are around 14,000 people in emergency accommodation in Ireland out of a population of 5.25 million. That's a very low figure by international standards.

Just like every other rich successful country that people want to come and live in we have problems providing accommodation for migrants and international protection order applicants.

We didn't have an accommodation problem when 40,000-50,000 people were leaving the country every year and our net population was static. Other countries with static populations are generally not experiencing accommodation shortages.

The reduction in the average household size over the last 30-40 years has consumed approximately half of all of the residential properties we have built without housing any more people so that statistic really matters.
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Quarter 2 in 2023 of a CSO report is a snapshot in time. The census forms are usually only completed by those in secure accommodation. My reference to those living in that type of accommodation was in response to Leos post. You haven’t included Ukrainians which is in excess of 100,000 in your figures. These people come September will also be trying to source accommodation. There is nowhere for people to rent and as a consequence it contributes greatly to our labour shortage.
 
Purple said:
We didn't have an accommodation problem when 40,000-50,000 people were leaving the country every year and our net population was static. Other countries with static populations are generally not experiencing accommodation shortages.
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A member of my family moved to work in a certain provincial town in the early 1990s and had for the first 6 weeks to couchsurf in a friend's house 10 miles from that town because there was literally no accommodation available in the town.
 
Silversurfer said:
Quarter 2 in 2023 of a CSO report is a snapshot in time. The census forms are usually only completed by those in secure accommodation. My reference to those living in that type of accommodation was in response to Leos post.
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It's still a statistically reasonably accurate snapshot.
Silversurfer said:
You haven’t included Ukrainians which is in excess of 100,000 in your figures. These people come September will also be trying to source accommodation.
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Not 100,000 of them.
Silversurfer said:
There is nowhere for people to rent and as a consequence it contributes greatly to our labour shortage.
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I agree. We have too many people with degrees and too few with construction trades. Actually we have too few men in construction trades because lets be real here, men build things, not women.

If we are going to fill that labour shortage with immigrants then we should be encouraging single men to come here, not women and children. How about giving single men accommodation and giving the tents to the women and children?

If we are going to fill them with natives then we need to see a big increase in pay levels for those in construction. Given how difficult and dangerous it is and how bad the working conditions are it is reasonable that they should be paid significantly more than solicitors or teachers or accountants or marketing or HR "professionals" etc. We need more people with useful jobs and fewer who are just selling things to each other.
 
Purple said:
If we are going to fill that labour shortage with immigrants then we should be encouraging single men to come here, not women and children. How about giving single men accommodation and giving the tents to the women and children?
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Those single men arriving as asylum seekers are generally not working on building sites even after getting status. Most of the building trade consists of irish, british and eastern european workers, and they are ageing now.
 
joe sod said:
They are mostly on work permits predominantly from Brazil and the Philippines, that's completely separate to the asylum system, I know the government love to conflate the two . Most asylum seekers end up in low level roles in hospitality as that's where they have the connections, I bet very few are working in construction building houses or as nurses or doctors because they can get a work visa for that
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Are there alot of asylum seekers ( many of whom are really economic migrants) working in security as security guards.
 
Pmc365 said:
Are there alot of asylum seekers ( many of whom are really economic migrants) working in security as security guards.
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I doubt anyone here can provide accurate numbers, but the requirement for Garda vetting would pose a challenge for the undocumented.
 
Leo said:
I doubt anyone here can provide accurate numbers, but the requirement for Garda vetting would pose a challenge for the undocumented.
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The ones that don't want the free taxi must get offered a bouncer gig. :rolleyes:
 
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