Why are landlords rushing for the exits while rents are so high?

[Baby boomer]

Because in Dublin-sized cities all over the Continent someone on minimum wage is able to rent a clean, hygienic and well-heated apartment for a couple of hundred Euro a month. In Dublin, people on minimum wage typically pay over 50% of their income to share mouldy, squalid dwellings (and sometimes even a bedroom) with multiple strangers.

A couple of hundred Euro? I very much doubt that!

 

[tomdublin]

A couple of hundred Euro? I very much doubt that

Then check out rental websites for cities such as Lyon, Düsseldorf, Krakow, Stockholm, Helsinki, Vienna and Turin (or Google it). Even in the most expensive Dublin-sized Continental cities such as Copenhagen you can rent a one-bedroom apartment for around 1000 Euro a month on the open market. For those on low wages whose rents are subsidized or who rent from housing cooperatives it's significantly cheaper.

 

[Baby boomer]

Then check out rental websites for cities such as Lyon, Düsseldorf, Krakow, Stockholm, Helsinki, Vienna and Turin (or Google it). Even in the most expensive Dublin-sized Continental cities such as Copenhagen you can rent a one-bedroom apartment for around 1000 Euro a month on the open market. For those on low wages whose rents are subsidized or who rent from housing cooperatives it's significantly cheaper.

Right, so the "couple of hundred euro" pm apartment is subsidized! Not open market prices. Or rent controlled with a decades long waiting list like Stockholm. You can get subsidized homes from housing associations or local authorities here too for a few hundred euro. But there's not a lot of them available. Just like most cities.

 

[tomdublin]

Right, so the "couple of hundred euro" pm apartment is subsidized! Not open market prices. Or rent controlled with a decades long waiting list like Stockholm. You can get subsidized homes from housing associations or local authorities here too for a few hundred euro. But there's not a lot of them available. Just like most cities.

No, the couple of hundred Euro (e.g. in Stockholm, Helsinki and Düsseldorf) is open market. It's at the lower end of the price scale but readily available to anyone without any means testing. You can easily verify this yourself.

 

[cremeegg]

No, the couple of hundred Euro (e.g. in Stockholm, Helsinki and Düsseldorf) is open market. It's at the lower end of the price scale but readily available to anyone without any means testing. You can easily verify this yourself.

I looked at Helsinki and you are right there are 1 bed apartments available for €750 - €800 per month. These are typically 22 sq m.

According to this if it is still current

New guidelines to allow for smaller apartments

Smaller apartments are to be permitted under new planning guidelines published by the Department of the Environment.

www.rte.ie

The smallest apartment size in Ireland is 40 sq m for a studio. Maybe we should have more of those.

I wonder what the employment situation in Helsinki is.

 

[Baby boomer]

Fair enough @cremeegg but €750 is still a long way off the "couple of hundred euro" touted by @tomdublin. And 22sqm isn't really an apartment; it's a studio. And a tiny one at that.

I lived in Rathmines bedsits that were bigger than that back in the day.

 

[tomdublin]

The 22 sqm average one-bedroom apartment is a myth. Continental apartments tend to be bigger & better built than Irish ones and 750 is still a lot less than the 1800 demanded for the dingiest "compact" apartment in Dublin. Why are so many here so much in denial regarding the grimness of the situation?

 

[cremeegg]

The 22 sqm average one-bedroom apartment is a myth.

Excuse me.

You suggested that

Because in Dublin-sized cities all over the Continent someone on minimum wage is able to rent a clean, hygienic and well-heated apartment for a couple of hundred Euro a month. In Dublin, people on minimum wage typically pay over 50% of their income to share mouldy, squalid dwellings (and sometimes even a bedroom) with multiple strangers.

Now I like most others on here thought this unlikely. However instead of accusing you of pedalling 'myths'. I looked into Helsinki, one of the cities you mentioned. The cheapest apartments I could find there were from €750 to €800 and were 22 sq m.

So I do not appreciate you coming back telling me its a myth.

 

[tomdublin]

They exist but it's not the average size for this price. Scroll down a couple of listings on the same portal you seem to have checked and there are plenty of entries for available apartments over 30 sqm and below 800 a month.
Also check https://asunnot.oikotie.fi (their version of daft) which lists hundreds such places.

 

[Thirsty]

And a search today on myhome.ie shows 230 properties ( 2-bed or more) for €250k or less in the Dublin area.

€250k is not, I believe, an insurmountable purchase price.

 

[Marco 1972]

And a search today on myhome.ie shows 230 properties ( 2-bed or more) for €250k or less in the Dublin area.

€250k is not, I believe, an insurmountable purchase price.

True but guess they are located in social housing ghettos... affordable really means a nice place in a good area

 

[Thirsty]

affordable

affordable means what you can afford! the other remark I'll put down to snobbery.

 

[tomdublin]

affordable means what you can afford! the other remark I'll put down to snobbery.

It's partially snobbery but also in part a reflection of the fact that a small minority of social housing tenants are deeply antisocial and vicious. Local authorities have shown zero willingness to evict them no matter how much they terrorize their neighbours and that reinforces a general stigma against social housing.

 

[Leo]

Because in Dublin-sized cities all over the Continent someone on minimum wage is able to rent a clean, hygienic and well-heated apartment for a couple of hundred Euro a month. In Dublin, people on minimum wage typically pay over 50% of their income to share mouldy, squalid dwellings (and sometimes even a bedroom) with multiple strangers.

Really? Can you provide links to a 'clean, hygienic and well-heated apartment' for rent in Paris, Berlin or Brussels for a couple of hundred Euro?

I presume you really know your claim is complete nonsense though, pretty much all countries in Europe experiencing growth are also in the midst of an accommodation crisis.

 

[tomdublin]

Really? Can you provide links to a 'clean, hygienic and well-heated apartment' for rent in Paris, Berlin or Brussels for a couple of hundred Euro?

I presume you really know your claim is complete nonsense though, pretty much all countries in Europe experiencing growth are also in the midst of an accommodation crisis.

Paris and Berlin are not Dublin-size cities. As for Brussels I'm no expert but a quick online search showed that there are lots of nice one-bedroom apartments available for around 650 a month. Before you dismiss someone's claims as "complete nonsense" you might want to do a few minutes of research yourself.

 

[Leo]

Paris and Berlin are not Dublin-size cities. As for Brussels I'm no expert but a quick online search showed that there are lots of nice one-bedroom apartments available for around 650 a month. Before you dismiss someone's claims as "complete nonsense" you might want to do a few minutes of research yourself.

Do you think the OECD did no research? Or the EU themselves who have acknowledged there is an EU wide accommodation crisis?

You can find 1-bed studios in Brussels, but of course they'd be illegal here as the Irish public demanded that bedsits be banished to the history books. Yet you claim European apartments are bigger than Irish ones.

RPZ legislation here has reduced supply which always pushes up prices.

You've also claimed that rental accommodation here is typically squalid and mouldy. Can you back that up? Why is it that Irish tenants put up with that when all it takes is a call to the RTB who will then arrange for the inspection of the property?

 

[tomdublin]

Do you think the OECD did no research? Or the EU themselves who have acknowledged there is an EU wide accommodation crisis?

You can find 1-bed studios in Brussels, but of course they'd be illegal here as the Irish public demanded that bedsits be banished to the history books. Yet you claim European apartments are bigger than Irish ones.

RPZ legislation here has reduced supply which always pushes up prices.

You've also claimed that rental accommodation here is typically squalid and mouldy. Can you back that up? Why is it that Irish tenants put up with that when all it takes is a call to the RTB who will then arrange for the inspection of the property?

Property prices have gone up in many places and there are supply issues but apart from very large cities such as Paris and London the rental situation in Dublin is pretty much uniquely awful in terms of security of tenure, rent levels and availability.

The places in Brussels I was referring to aren't bedsits. I agree that outlawing bedsits in Ireland was a stupid move.

I never said all rentals in Dublin are squalid, but it's typical for those someone on minimum wage can afford. I have seen some of them myself and the standards are pretty shocking.

One reason many tenants in squalid housing don't complain is that they fear being made homeless if their accomodation is closed down.

 

[Leo]

Property prices have gone up in many places and there are supply issues but apart from very large cities such as Paris and London the rental situation in Dublin is pretty much uniquely awful in terms of security of tenure, rent levels and availability.

Dublin hasn't been called out as uniquely bad in the OECD or EU reviews, there are issues yes, but they are far from unique.

Security of tenure is significantly less of an issues that it was. Indeed the main challenge there at the moment is increased regulation of the rental market driving landlords out of the business. It's pretty much the case that increasing regulation and rent controls always results in a worse situation for tenants.

I never said all rentals in Dublin are squalid,

You said:

In Dublin, people on minimum wage typically pay over 50% of their income to share mouldy, squalid dwellings

One reason many tenants in squalid housing don't complain is that they fear being made homeless if their accomodation is closed down.

That's not how the system works! The landlord is ordered to resolve issues within a pretty tight timeframe, they are not entitled to end the tenancy in order to effect any repairs. This can be quite difficult for landlords of older properties, as they are expected to meet modern building standards.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

he Irish public demanded that bedsits be banished to the history books.

I think it was more a bunch of housing and heritage NGOs that pushed this.

It was and still is a bizarre policy. There is huge growth in the number of single-person households and the expansion in "co-living" developments is a way around this prohibition on small studios.

Some people want and even need to live alone. For them 25sqm on their own is much better than 100sqm shared with someone else.

 

[Leo]

I think it was more a bunch of housing and heritage NGOs that pushed this.

No doubt they were heavily involved, but there was also those like Tom who believed the awful examples that made the papers were typical of the whole market and contributed to them getting a reputation they didn't deserve.