Why are electric cars so cheap to run ?

[jhegarty]

Your estimate is way off there.

My car will driver for about 1:20 @ 100 kph (slightly more in good summer weather , less during a storm). It's got a 22 Kilowatt hour battery (about 20 Kilowatt hour usable).

So a car with a 50 Kilowatt hour will do well over 3 hours at that speed.

 

[Leo]

So a car with a 50 Kilowatt hour will do well over 3 hours at that speed.

Only if it weights the same, doesn't have greater wind resistance....

One other thing no one has so far factored into the running costs are replacement batteries or insurance.

I've read some insurers will not cover EVs, while others charge more due to relatively minor crashes involving costly battery repairs. I did run a comparison on one of the online quote engines though, and the EV price was not that much more than an equivalent sized low capacity diesel car.

 

[jhegarty]

Only if it weights the same, doesn't have greater wind resistance....

No reason to think the wind resistance will change.

There is a weight increase in the bigger batteries , but it's not that much. For the last I3 update where was less than 10% weight increase for an over 50% battery increase.

One other thing no one has so far factored into the running costs are replacement batteries

I have an 8 year/100k miles guarantee on the battery.

or insurance. I've read some insurers will not cover EVs, while others charge more due to relatively minor crashes involving costly battery repairs. I did run a comparison on one of the online quote engines though, and the EV price was not that much more than an equivalent sized low capacity diesel car.

I got a cheque back from Aviva when I switched from a 5 series patrol. It did take a long phone call to have them figure out how to enter the car for a quote.

 

[Leo]

No reason to think the wind resistance will change.

If the car size and shape is exactly the same, then yes wind resistance will have the same effect. Bigger, or more accurately, less aerodynamically efficient cars will suffer greater resistance. Your post didn't state the same model across the examples, so it was my assumption that it'd be a different model, but perhaps there are EVs out there that offer both 20kWh and 50kWh options.

I have an 8 year/100k miles guarantee on the battery.

What are the terms of that warranty in relation to battery capacity / vehicle range. There are reports of 5 year old Leafs whose capacity is now down to ~60% of the original. What are BMW guaranteeing in terms of capacity after 8 years? Battery technology is improving, and the i3s are using newer technology than the likes of the early Leafs, so lifespan and capacity retention over time will improve. So I am genuinely interested in seeing what manufacturers are prepared to stand over for current models.

And how much does a replacement battery cost? To work out long term ownership costs, battery replacement needs to be figured into the equation. With fewer moving parts, EVs have the potential for a longer service life than ICEs. In the US, Leaf replacement batteries cost $6,500 plus fitting, but there is a $1k rebate for the old battery so long as it's in good condition.

I got a cheque back from Aviva when I switched from a 5 series patrol.

The i3 is a significantly smaller car than a 5 series. 5 series base models cost 50% more than the i3, you'd expect a refund there to be fair.

 

[jhegarty]

If the car size and shape is exactly the same, then yes wind resistance will have the same effect. Bigger, or more accurately, less aerodynamically efficient cars will suffer greater resistance. Your post didn't state the same model across the examples, so it was my assumption that it'd be a different model, but perhaps there are EVs out there that offer both 20kWh and 50kWh options.

Renault Zoe has a 22 kWh and 41 kWh option for the same car.

BMW I3 doesn't have anything bigger than 33kWh yet.

So my example car doesn't exist yet

What are the terms of that warranty in relation to battery capacity / vehicle range. There are reports of 5 year old Leafs whose capacity is now down to ~60% of the original.

The early leafs had terrible batteries. They changed the chemistry and the newer ones don't have these issues.

What are BMW guaranteeing in terms of capacity after 8 years? Battery technology is improving, and the i3s are using newer technology than the likes of the early Leafs, so lifespan and capacity retention over time will improve. So I am genuinely interested in seeing what manufacturers are prepared to stand over for current models.

And how much does a replacement battery cost? To work out long term ownership costs, battery replacement needs to be figured into the equation. With fewer moving parts, EVs have the potential for a longer service life than ICEs. In the US, Leaf replacement batteries cost $6,500 plus fitting, but there is a $1k rebate for the old battery so long as it's in good condition.

The BMW battery is conditioned (heated or cooled by the car) so they are going to preform better than unconditioned. I haven't seen any reports online of anyone having a battery replacement.

The warranty is 70% of original charge at 100k miles or 8 years.

A battery upgrade (to the 33 kWh) is priced at $8,000 (haven't seen an Irish price) , so I assume that's the price range if the battery needs to be replaced. As the car would be over 8years/100k miles I would expect a battery fail to be an uneconomic repair.

The i3 is a significantly smaller car than a 5 series. 5 series base models cost 50% more than the i3, you'd expect a refund there to be fair.

The 5 series 10 years old , so worth much less than the i3.

 

[RichInSpirit]

Your estimate is way off there.

My car will driver for about 1:20 @ 100 kph (slightly more in good summer weather , less during a storm). It's got a 22 Kilowatt hour battery (about 20 Kilowatt hour usable).

So a car with a 50 Kilowatt hour will do well over 3 hours at that speed.

Sorry I was estimating motor power compared to a internal combustion engine, not battery capacity. I might have been way off with my 50kw motor. Although some of the Teslas have over 100kilowatt motors.

 

[jhegarty]

The current Tesla Model S has a 568 kW motor. That's 762 horses in old money.

It's limited by the battery output of 451 kW, so you can't use the full output of the motor.

 

[RichInSpirit]

The current Tesla Model S has a 568 kW motor. That's 762 horses in old money.

It's limited by the battery output of 451 kW, so you can't use the full output of the motor.

And when cruising at 100kmph it probably only uses a fraction of the available power ?

 

[jhegarty]

That's correct. The i3 uses about 15 kw cruising*. Not sue about the Tesla , but it's going to be more.

*More when the road uphill and generates power going downhill.

 

[Leo]

A battery upgrade (to the 33 kWh) is priced at $8,000 (haven't seen an Irish price) , so I assume that's the price range if the battery needs to be replaced. As the car would be over 8years/100k miles I would expect a battery fail to be an uneconomic repair.

I'd guess that't not just the price differential between the batteries, but the manufacturer has a little extra margin on the more powerful option as well, just like they sell more powerful versions of the same diesel engines today.

I'd imagine a lot of battery failure would be limited to a single or a few cells failing. I've read a lot of the manufacturers are somewhat facilitating the replacement of individual cell, or smaller group and a few specialist repairiers are starting to launch in the US. So hopefully not a write-off scenario.