Who gets a vote for the Seanad election

torblednam said:
Pardon my ignorance but who exactly gets a vote for the Seanad election?!
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Seanad

The Seanad is the upper house of the Oireachtas (the Irish parliament). This document describes its functions and how it is elected.
www.citizensinformation.ie

Seanad Éireann - Electoral Commission

Seanad elections are currently underway. The Seanad is the upper house of the Oireachtas, with the lower house being the Dáil. Members of the Seanad are known as Senators. Functions of Seanad Éireann The main function of the Seanad is to debate legislation proposed by the Government. The Seanad...
www.electoralcommission.ie
 
The answer appears to be "graduates of certain universities"...

@ClubMan Thanks for the link but I had hoped by asking the question I'd get the answer without having to read a whole spiel!
 
torblednam said:
Pardon my ignorance but who exactly gets a vote for the Seanad election?!
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Three senators are elected by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
Three senators are elected by graduates of Dublin University.
(These two constituencies are about to be merged into a single constituency in which six senator will be elected by graduates of all Irish universities. But, for now, they are still separate.)
Forty-three senators are elected by members of local goverments, members of the new Dáil, members of the outgoing Seanad - a total electorate of, I think, about 1,100.
 
Not to mention those simply appointed by the Taoiseach of the day. Not a very democratic electoral process it it ?
 
Flybytheseat said:
Not to mention those simply appointed by the Taoiseach of the day. Not a very democratic electoral process it it ?
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Well, the Taoiseach and the members of local governments at least have an electoral mandate of their own, which university graduates don't have.

But I'm not hugely impressed by argument that the method of selecting Senators isn't terribly democratic. Does it need to be? The method of selecting TDs is highly democratic, and if the Seanad was chosen in a similar way we'd end up with a Seanad that looked pretty much like the Dáil. And what would be th point of that?

If we're going to have a Seanad — and we are, for the forseeable future — then it might as well be different from the Dáil, so it should be selected by methods that result in different voices, different perspectives being represented in the Oireachtas. The election of senators by university graduates may be difficult to defend as an exercise in democracy, but it did lead to the representation of voices like David Norris, Mary Robinson, Michael D Higgins and others who might not otherwise have found a route into politics. Similarly the Taoiseach's nominees are often party hacks, but often not; we've had T. K. Whitaker, John Robb, Gordon Wilson, Maurice Hayes, etc.

I don't think the Oireachtas would be improved by the exclusion of voices like these and, while reform is needed, I think the key focus should not be on making the process more democratic, but making it more effective at giving voice and representation to a diversity of views and perspectives.
 
torblednam said:
The answer appears to be "graduates of certain universities"...
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To be expanded this year as it happens. I wasn't aware if this even though it impacts me, but thanks to the useful information on Citizens Information I know now...

Seanad

The Seanad is the upper house of the Oireachtas (the Irish parliament). This document describes its functions and how it is elected.
www.citizensinformation.ie
 
One of the purposes of the Seanad (and we have to go back 100 years here when thinking about this) was to give a voice to the Protestant minority, hence why there is a seperate TCD constituency. Obviously that is very outdated now but back then, even if TCD would accept you, a Catholic needed permission from their Bishop to attend TCD (in the same way my mother and grandmother had to get permission from the bishop to attend a Protestant funeral back in the 40's).

In fairness, some voices that would not have been heard (David Norris springs to mind) were as a result of this. Hopefully that will continue.
 
That was necessary back then but not now.
Peanuts20 said:
In fairness, some voices that would not have been heard (David Norris springs to mind) were as a result of this. Hopefully that will continue.
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It also allowed some voiced to be heard which we'd have been better off not hearing (Michael D Higgins springs to mind).
 
I had a long chat over a beer with a friend last week about who to vote for. He’s TCD, I’m NUI.

Both of us actually enjoy this vote much more than the GE. Senators often take unpopular and unpredictable positions on issues of national interest and have the luxury of being able to ignore the local potholes.

While a senator’s vote rarely means much, they do have a lot of ability to shine a light in dark corners.

I voted to abolish the Seanad in 2013 and with hindsight I’m very glad it was defeated.
 
TomEdison said:
The election of senators by university graduates may be difficult to defend as an exercise in democracy,
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Thats probably the most democratic part of it, there are many university graduates, surely if you want to focus on the undemocratic nature of the seanad election it is the fact that one person the taoiseach gets to select 11 senators whereas all the thousands of university graduates only get to elect 6 !!
 
It would be outrageous if the Senate, with the elitist nature of its electorate, was to block the will of the people as expressed through the Dáil. Therefore the Taoiseach gets to appoint 11 Senators and guarantee that the Government has a majority in the upper house.
 
What if the senators were selected by sortition?
Everyone who votes in the GE entered in a draw and then 60 names selected live on tv.
It would make for a more representative sample of the population to act as their "representatives".
Far too democratic I suppose
 
but the most elitest part of it is the taoiseach selecting 11 out of 60 senators, then 43 are elected by the county councils, incoming dail and outgoing senate, also not a huge electorate whereas only 6 are elected by university graduates (by far the biggest electorate) yet all this focus on elitism just because of those 6 senators. I think that's a bit crazy
 
All of the others are elected by people who are elected through a universal franchise. The university electorate is elitist and should be abolished.
 
Purple said:
All of the others are elected by people who are elected through a universal franchise. The university electorate is elitist and should be abolished.
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Completely disagree, all the universities are now included, in fact it should be increased to 10 with the taoiseach and the parliament and councillor senator selection being reduced by 2 each
 
joe sod said:
Completely disagree, all the universities are now included, in fact it should be increased to 10 with the taoiseach and the parliament and councillor senator selection being reduced by 2 each
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Why do you think that University graduates should get a vote and the rest of the country shouldn't?
If we are selecting elites to have more of a voice than the rest of the population than should people who earn more than €200k a year also get to elect some senators?
 
Purple said:
Why do you think that University graduates should get a vote and the rest of the country shouldn't?
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It's even more restrictive in that it's only graduates from Irish universities, ignoring the many with equivalent or better foreign qualifications.
 
Well the referendum for reform of the senate was passed in 1979 but never implemented by the parliament, so if that is not elitism , what is?
Its obvious that the parliament and councils enjoy the substantial power they have to select the senate yet all this focus on the relatively small number of senators elected by the universities.
 
That's because the Parliament and Councils are elected by all the people and so their vote is a vote by the people. The elitist selection of Senators by a small number of graduates from some universities in effect gives that cohort a second vote. It is anachronistic and should be ended.
 
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