While, Normally I support the Cyclist . . . .

Páid said:
...and motorists don't think they own the road.
How can it be unsuitable? It's a road and they are entitled to use it. The problem is that motorists are impeded by them (and other slow moving traffic) and some motorists prioritise their impatience over cyclists safety.
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As a motorist I don't think I own the road, but it seems like the 'charity' group here acted like they did. Perhaps they felt because their cause was just any actions in its cause were just :)

A narrow country road is not suitable for a road race by cyclists, or a large group of charity cyclists.
They're entitled to use it properly, showing due consideration to other users.
We're not talking about one or two cyclists getting from A to B.
We're talking about a large group following a deliberate route chosen in advance.
It's not suitable for someone to race their car either, or for a large group of joggers to have a race, or a large group of people in charge of horses to have an informal hunt, or for a parade of tractors, for that matter.

We've all read the comments on this thread about racing cyclists prioritising their chances of winning over their own safety and that of others, I don't think there's any reason to doubt this. You shouldn't be cycling like that if it's an open road.

If it's a race, either the road should be closed or the route should be somewhere where the race doesn't have to take over the whole road.

If it's a large community event the road should be closed, properly marshalled and information notices posted for the rest of the local community.
 
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seamless said:
And those self same drivers should be taking notice of the increasing use of forward and rear facing helmet and handlebar mounted cameras.

It is now increasingly likely that bad and aggressive driving towards cyclists is being recorded.
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And the reverse is also true .. more and more drivers have windscreen mounted cameras installed ... so it can equally record a driver's and a cyclist's bad behaviour.
 
I was not expecting some of the reactions that appeared on this thread:-
(a) Cyclists to use narrow public road when an almost empty cycle/walk facility runs parallel to the road - Crazy!
(b) Some do not want motorists to overtake cyclists - Lunacy!.
(c) There appears a case for two cycle lanes (i) For slow cyclists (ii) For Fast cyclists - I'm sure the Irish taxpayer needs this like we need disease!
(d) Close road for such events - Great the motor tax paying motorists not allowed access to a touristy town while cyclists take hours to amble along!
(e) Have the gardaí to police routes more - A good solution, I think.
(f) Confine such events to a specific realistic time. Good too.
(g) Make it a criminal offence if the organisers cannot supply enough effective marshals. Excellent.
(h) Let's all share the road simultaneously - Great like a football squad sharing one cup cake!
(i) Common Sense?- Too much to expect, Forget it!
 
Páid said:
...and motorists don't think they own the road.
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no, I don't think that. In the same way I don't drive on the hardshoulder if I see a cyclist on it, I expect cyclists to have the same amount of cop on and courtesy and not pull out from the hard shoulder in front of me. These cyclists (and they were a minority) were riding carelessly and dangerously without any due regard or respect from any other road user.
 
thedaddyman said:
no, I don't think that. In the same way I don't drive on the hardshoulder if I see a cyclist on it, I expect cyclists to have the same amount of cop on and courtesy and not pull out from the hard shoulder in front of me. These cyclists (and they were a minority) were riding carelessly and dangerously without any due regard or respect from any other road user.
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Someone mentioned a car camera, by any chance would you have taken pictures. Then it would be easier to visualise what actually happened.
 
odyssey06 said:
As a motorist I don't think I own the road, but it seems like the 'charity' group here acted like they did. Perhaps they felt because their cause was just any actions in its cause were just
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From the OP - they were reacting to motorists behaviour.

odyssey06 said:
A narrow country road is not suitable for a road race by cyclists, or a large group of charity cyclists.
They're entitled to use it properly, showing due consideration to other users.
We're not talking about one or two cyclists getting from A to B.
We're talking about a large group following a deliberate route chosen in advance.
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Road races are different to charity or club/group cycling. Road races (e.g. An Post RÁS) have rolling road closures with support vans and motorcycles that travel ahead of the peleton stopping traffic as necessary. For most charity cycles you are told that there are no road closures and to obey the rules of the road. Most cyclists will do this but there will always be some trying to complete the course in the fastest time possible.

odyssey06 said:
It's not suitable for someone to race their car either, or for a large group of joggers to have a race, or a large group of people in charge of horses to have an informal hunt, or for a parade of tractors, for that matter.
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It's a road and can be used by any number of road users - it's not there solely for the use of motorists. It is perfectly legal to cycle in a group, two abreast. It is also perfectly legal to be in charge of animals on a road and motorists must obey the directions of those people in charge of animals. It is also perfectly legal for 50 tractors to head down the road for any reason.

odyssey06 said:
If it's a large community event the road should be closed, properly marshalled and information notices posted for the rest of the local community.
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There usually are lots of notices and in some cases rolling road closures organised.

Also FYI - since October 2012 it is not mandatory for cyclists to use a cycle lane. Read paragraph 2 of the explanatory note - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print
 
Leper said:
(a) Cyclists to use narrow public road when an almost empty cycle/walk facility runs parallel to the road - Crazy!
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Greenways are totally unsuitable for cyclists travelling at speed. It would be inconsiderate to other users of the greenway, especially families with small children, for them to do so. These are leisure paths, not commuter highways. It's crazy that some motorists have such a sense of entitlement that they feel other road users who cause them any inconvenience have a lesser right to the road.

Leper said:
(b) Some do not want motorists to overtake cyclists - Lunacy!.
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No, it's more to do with the fact that they don't want to die so someone can arrive at their destination a few seconds earlier. The vast majority of cyclists much prefer when cars pass them safely, having a car following close behind can be unnerving for many as you don't know what they might do.

Leper said:
(c) There appears a case for two cycle lanes (i) For slow cyclists (ii) For Fast cyclists
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No, we have roads for fast cyclists. To suggest anything else is lunacy, and demonstrates an attitude of seeing cyclists as somehow inferior or less entitled to use the roads.

Leper said:
(d) Close road for such events - Great the motor tax paying motorists not allowed access to a touristy town while cyclists take hours to amble along!
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Again the tired old 'I pay motor tax, I own the road' argument..

Leper said:
(e) Have the gardaí to police routes more - A good solution, I think.
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The Gardai are aware of most of these events of any scale, the fact that they choose not to police more heavily suggests they don't have a serious issue. They will show up for a while around the busy start of some of the bigger events, and the only action I've ever seen them take was to go after drivers for dangerous driving.

Leper said:
(g) Make it a criminal offence if the organisers cannot supply enough effective marshals. Excellent.
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Ridiculous. Event organisers have no entitlement to enforce road traffic legislation. That is the role of the Gardai.

Leper said:
(h) Let's all share the road simultaneously - Great like a football squad sharing one cup cake!
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So a nice quiet country road with a single car having an issue passing a group of cyclists is like what???

Leper said:
(i) Common Sense?- Too much to expect
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It would appear so...
 
Worth noting what the actual rules of the road state

In the company of one or more cyclists, you must have due regard to other

users of the road, and you must take full account of prevailing road conditions.


On occasion, it may be safe to cycle two abreast, but you must not cycle in a

manner likely to create an obstruction for other road users.

And also
Cyclists must use any cycle track provided

Sections in bold are from the rules itself, not from me,
 
thedaddyman said:
Correct, but if it is badly organized with insufficient insurance then the organisers could be held liable for any accidents.
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Absolutely, but they can't be held liable for participants' behaviour or lack of compliance with road traffic legislation. They'd need to be proven to be negligent for liability to arise.
 
thedaddyman said:
Worth noting what the actual rules of the road state

In the company of one or more cyclists, you must have due regard to other users of the road, and you must take full account of prevailing road conditions.

On occasion, it may be safe to cycle two abreast, but you must not cycle in a manner likely to create an obstruction for other road users.
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Every road user must exhibit due regard for every other road user, motorists, cyclists, pedestrians, etc.. Cycling two abreast should not cause inconvenience to other road users unless it is a particularly narrow road. Often people who feel inconvenienced by this are those who feel it is OK to overtake with oncoming traffic. If it's a section of road where it would be unsafe to overtake another car, then perhaps it is unsafe to overtake a group of cyclists. Also, it is usually easier to overtake a group of 10 cyclists cycling two abreast than it is overtake 10 in single file. You'll also note from the legislation that while cyclists should keep to the left, they should only do so to a degree that does not cause them any inconvenience or endanger themselves in any way.

thedaddyman said:
Cyclists must use any cycle track provided
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An example of a good reason why the rules of the road are a very poor substitute for the Road Traffic Acts. The legislation obliging cyclists to use cycle tracks where provided was only in place for a couple of years, and was removed in the 2012 act. The act also clearly defines cycle tracks, and greenways do not fall under that definition. It was never enforced as the Gardai said that to enforce it properly would require them to remove cars and other obstructions from cycling infrastructure, and they wouldn't do so as it would have too much of an impact of normal commercial activities.
 
Leper said:
I was not expecting some of the reactions that appeared on this thread:-
(a) Cyclists to use narrow public road when an almost empty cycle/walk facility runs parallel to the road - Crazy!
(b) Some do not want motorists to overtake cyclists - Lunacy!.
(c) There appears a case for two cycle lanes (i) For slow cyclists (ii) For Fast cyclists - I'm sure the Irish taxpayer needs this like we need disease!
(d) Close road for such events - Great the motor tax paying motorists not allowed access to a touristy town while cyclists take hours to amble along!
(e) Have the gardaí to police routes more - A good solution, I think.
(f) Confine such events to a specific realistic time. Good too.
(g) Make it a criminal offence if the organisers cannot supply enough effective marshals. Excellent.
(h) Let's all share the road simultaneously - Great like a football squad sharing one cup cake!
(i) Common Sense?- Too much to expect, Forget it!
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You might want to re-title the thread. Your true colours in relation to people cycling is now showing through.
How much time do you think you that woman who obviously drove too close for comfort to the cyclists actually saved whilst endangering others?
If I wasn't so annoyed, I'd actually laugh at the people driving who must overtake me in Dublin city in a dangerous fashion only to see me cycling by a few hundred metres up the road.
It's been pointed out to you a few times that Greenways aren't always suitable for groups out on a spin, yet you keep saying cyclist should use them rather than a road.
You also use the tired motor tax canard, you can bet that 95% of the people cycling also pay motor tax.
Where was the common sense of the motorist?
 
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thedaddyman said:
Worth noting what the actual rules of the road state

<snipped>

And also
Cyclists must use any cycle track provided

Sections in bold are from the rules itself, not from me,
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That section of the RotR is not correct. I have emailed the RSA about it.

It's bad when the competent authority gets it wrong. The Gardaí have also tweeted mis-information about it in the past as well.
 
Somebody asked a question on what I thought was common sense. Probably indicative of the whole issue here. We have cyclists and motorists who are entrenched in almost open warfare against each other. Common Sense is necessary from all motorists and cyclists and pedestrians. Without it we might as well throw our hat at it. To common sense I would also add Respect. If we have the two, then we are most of the way to peace on our roads. One shouting and gesticulating at the other solves nothing. I cycle and drive to work (half and half weather permitting). I see the lunatic fringe of motorists, cyclists, pedestrians, gardaí, traffic wardens, school wardens etc. If we cannot share our roads with each other then there is no hope for any of us.
 
Leper said:
Somebody asked a question on what I thought was common sense. ... To common sense I would also add Respect.
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The subject, your opening and other posts in this thread show very little respect for cyclists as road users.

Leper said:
If we cannot share our roads with each other then there is no hope for any of us.
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So why post that cyclists using the road is crazy? Or that all users sharing the road is like a football team trying to share a cupcake?
 
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