Which ptsb mortgages have been sold?

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,131
I have spoken to ptsb to clarify what has been sold and what has not been sold.

Buy to Lets
All non performing buy to lets have been sold
All buy to lets which were in arrears and which have been restructured have been sold, whether they are performing or not.
This includes performing split mortgages on buy to lets.(Performing split mortgages on family homes were removed from the sale.)

It appears that mortgages which were restructured before going into arrears have not been sold.

PDHs connected to Buy to Lets
Where a borrower has a Buy to Let which was included in the sale and a family home, the family home mortgage was sold as well even if it was fully performing, never in arrears and never restructured.

Unconnected PDHs.
Only PDHs which were in serious arrears were sold.

PDHs which were restructured but performing in line with the restructuring were not sold.
Split mortgages on unconnected PDHs which were performing were not sold.

Permanent tsb excluded some properties which were suitable for Mortgage to Rent
Apparently ptsb excluded from the sale some properties which were suitable for Mortgage to Rent.

I don't know why as Start could probably have done the MTR just as easily.

Miscellaneous
There are a few cases where people were surprised to see that their mortgages where sold
  • People who bought a Buy to Let and now live in it as their PDH. As this was originally a BTL, it was sold even if it was restructured.
  • A separated wife living in a fully performing PDH who did not realise that her ex-husband had a restructured BTL
 
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Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,131
PDHs not connected to Buy to Let Loans


My performing restructured PDH was sold, should I be worried?
If your mortgage was restructured and you are meeting the terms of the restructure, it should not have been sold. But even if it was sold, you have nothing to worry about. If your mortgage was restructured permanently e.g. arrears capitalisation or term extension, then Start is bound by the terms of the restructuring.

I have a split mortgage with ptsb - will it be sold?
If you have a split mortgages with ptsb and you are adhering to the terms of the split, it will not be sold.

If you have a split mortgage and you are not paying the agreed amount, it will be sold. Start may seek to revise the agreement as you are not adhering to it, but ptsb would have as well.

I have a short-term restructuring and it was sold, should I be worried?
ptsb were extremely flexible and generous with the terms of their restructurings. It's unlikely that Start Mortgages will be as generous. Start will be bound by the terms of the short-term restructuring but when it's over it will be up for negotiation again.

Start's business model appears to be to get loans performing and then sell them on as a performing loan. So if your loan is capable of being restructured permanently, then you will get a deal. So your best strategy is to adhere to the terms of the temporary arrangement to demonstrate to Start that you will be able to meet the terms of a permanent restructure. That is the same strategy as if ptsb still owned the loan.

I have a non-performing tracker on my PDH, can Start take it away?
No. But they can take you to court and try to get an order for possession. So it's in your interest to pay as much as you can.
 
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Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,131
PDHs connected to Buy to Lets

It's normal business practice for a purchaser to buy all loans from a lender which are from the same borrower. So even if you have a PDH which was never in arrears or never restructured, but you also had a Buy to Let which was restructured or which is in arrears, your PDH loan has been sold as well.


My fully performing PDH was sold, should I be worried?

No. If you have paid your mortgage in full, nothing will change.

In theory, if you default on your Buy to Let and you are forced to sell it, Start could get a judgement against you for any shortfall and lodge that against your family home.
 
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Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,131
Buy to Lets

My Buy to Let was restructured but is performing. Why did ptsb sell it?

The Central Bank/ECB has this stupid definition of non performing loans. It completely ignores whether a mortgage is profitable or not. In simple terms, a loan is not performing if it is not complying with the original terms. (That is why the Central Bank had initially insisted on ptsb selling very profitable split mortgages on PDHs.) So even if your mortgage is extremely profitable for ptsb, then the Central Bank regards it as non performing.

ptsb is obliged to bring down the ratio of NPLs. It has tried to minimise the number of non performing PDHs which were sold so it has sold all its Buy to Lets which were non performing.

I have a split mortgage on my Buy to Let but I am up to date with the payments?

You are a victim of the stupid Central Bank rules which classify your mortgage as a non performing mortgage. This forced ptsb to sell it although it's extremely profitable for them.

When the three year review is up, Start is much less likely to renew the split than ptsb. So you should do your very best to be in a position to meet the full repayments at that stage.

I have a tracker on my non-performing buy to let, could Start take it?

Start's first approach will be to try to make the mortgage performing. So you should pull out all the stops to clear the arrears and make it performing.

They can't take a tracker from someone whose mortgage is performing.

However, if you want a restructure, they can make the restructure conditional on giving up your tracker. ptsb could have done this as well, but they didn't. Bank of Ireland made giving up their tracker a condition of restructuring BTLs.
 
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Prince pig

Registered User
Messages
20
I have a Buy to let mortgage with PTSB. Was restructured 3 years ago so I pay full interest and approx 50% of the Capital. I never went into actual arrears as I did the restructure before I missed payments. They just confirmed for me this morning that my loan is NOT being sold....
That conflicts with what has been said above. I wonder how I escaped ?
 

RedOnion

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,290
All buy to lets which have been restructured have been sold, whether they are performing or not.
I suspect only those which were non-performing prior to restructure were included? There are different classifications of forbearance and not all result in a non-performing loan.
 

Prince pig

Registered User
Messages
20
Thanks. I was hoping it was something like that and that they hadn’t made a mistake. I’m only out from a 2 year successful fight with Tanager on my family Home so didn’t really want to go through similar again. Thankfully I’m back on track and paying in full and had arrears recapitalized ...
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Messages
13,632
Excellent thread. Should be linked at top of other PTSB thread as a must read for posters affected.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,131
ptsb issued this clarification yesterday. I think that I have covered it all already.

Saturday 4th August 2018 Response to Media Queries.

Spokesman for Permanent TSB:

Having announced the loan sale on Tuesday last, it was important to contact impacted customers as quickly as possible. Accordingly, letters were posted in order to arrive with customers from Friday. In the absence of written confirmation, customers would have spent time waiting to know whether their loans were or were not included in the transaction, the Bank did not believe that was reasonable.


When announcing the loan sale last Tuesday we set out some of the key characteristics of the portfolio of loans being sold as follows:


Glas Portfolio Characteristics:
· Contains non-performing loans linked to a total of c.10,700 properties made up of 3,300 Buy-To-Let Properties and 7,400 Private Dwelling Houses (‘PDHs’). PDHs are primarily made up of:
o 2,500 classified as accounts deemed “Not Co-Operating”
o 3,850 classified as accounts which have refused treatments or where the account has failed to operate in line with the agreed ‘Treatment’
· Average arrears time of loans in the portfolio is 3.5 years (days past due)
· Average arrears value of loans in the portfolio is €28,800
· Average value of a loan in the portfolio is approximately €175,000

In terms PDH loans, in addition to the two categories set out above the portfolio includes

(1) properties linked to loans which are performing/operating in line with an agreed restructuring plan but where the borrower has a second loan which is a non-performing BTL or PDH in arrears. In transactions like this, all connected mortgage loans transfer together.

(2) a smaller number of properties linked to non-performing mortgages where the customer may be engaging with the Bank but, in line with CCMA, the Bank has not been able to offer any restructuring terms that are both affordable and sustainable for the Borrower

If a borrower has agreed a restructure or an Alternative Payment Arrangement (ARA) and they have consistently made payments in line with the terms of the restructure then these terms will be honoured by Start Mortgages.
Start Mortgagesis a retail credit firm regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland since 2008.When dealing with borrowers, retail credit firms are bound by the same regulations that currently apply to permanent tsb. Like permanent tsb, they are required to comply with the Consumer Protection Code (CPC) and the Code of Conduct for Mortgage Arrears (CCMA) when dealing with borrowers who are in arrears.
 

Ms Magoo

New Member
Messages
1
David Hall mentioned that 15 mortgage to rent properties were sold off. I'm really worried as I'm going through the process with iCare.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,131
Hi Ms Magoo
Where did he mention this?

I understand that ptsb excluded a cohort of borrowers which it had identified for MTR.

However the vast majority of MTRs are rejected so you may have been put forward but if ptsb decided that you were unlikely to qualify, then your loan would have been sold off.

Brendan
 

Missladycakes

Registered User
Messages
10
I know this thread is old but I have to ask. My restructured family home was sold to Start. (never missed a payment since) I had a buy to let with PTSB that was sold with a shortfall. However I bought the buy to let fIRST and used it against my family home. As it was already sold should they have been included with the sale to Start?

Thanks

PDHs connected to Buy to Lets
Where a borrower has a Buy to Let which was included in the sale and a family home, the family home mortgage was sold as well even if it was fully performing, never in arrears and never restructured.
 
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