i'm not arguing against the need for cuts, i nailed those colours to mast early on, they have to be made. It doesn't mean i can't sympathise with those who face cuts or even feel that the portraying them all as lazy, workshy jobsworths is an incorrect generalisation.
?Code:But surely that was the point under discussion: the two teachers who decided to stop the activities
The point I was making was although it was said in the post that there was "uproar",I heard no such thing in any media whatsoever.
The second point I made was that they only stopped their volunteer work when they no longer had their ego massaged /and or paycuts etc.
The point being they were happy to do so once their terms and conditions were not affected,now that they have been they no longer want to do it ,so much for caring for the kids..
I have never said the two in the post are paid,I dont doubt that they are not.Code:In the same way we have to trust your example of your sister with the information you provided, we have to take the same view with this example of two teachers who've put a lot in for no extra pay (as far as I'm aware with friends it isn't paid work and is voluntary through work...though the schools in some cases insist it goes ahead or atleast put pressure on teachers to form these groups) and have decided to stop doing the extra stuff.
Code:The ultimate point again being that there are some who do the minimum and reap the benefits in all areas and all sectors, but there are many in all areas and all sectors who do the extra and end up getting penalised on the basis of the minority.
This happens when its said that they have sacrificed so much for the kids,"going for a pint with the missus"," having time to do little jobs around the house"..
There is very hard to believe and therfore is challanged,by giving examples of how if it quacks like a duck etc..
IIm not arguing against the need for cuts either.Code:'m not arguing against the need for cuts, I nailed those colours to mast early on, they have to be made. It doesn't mean I can't sympathise with those who face cuts or even feel that the portraying them all as lazy, workshy jobsworths is an incorrect generalisation.
We have to face the fact that teachers have it good.I use my sisters lifestyle as an example.They are well paid,they do a lot less hours per week work than any other profession,they have more holidays than the rest of us,they have the ability to earn extra income,ie grinds and after school classes(PAID FOR)
HTML:The example given of the two teachers, I can fully sympathise with how they must be feeling especially if it's assumed that they enjoy and reap the same as the example of your sister. And that's it.
I do not sympathize at all with them,like I said earlier if ,as they consistently claim ,they really cared about the kids,they would not stop doing voluntary work.
Just like many others who do voluntary work who have no jobs!
I do not sympathize with teachers during a critical time to go on strike and will not make up those days.
Not true.She cannot be sacked.etc etc.
Where have I said you said the teachers were overworked and underpaid?
Where have I said you said they should stop their voluntary work?
I have never said you said either of the above.
The nub of my point is that as you just posted above,my sister enjoys the Terms and conditions of her job.
That is where we differ, she has a job for life, she gets to finish much earlier than most employees,she gets a ridiculous amount of time off,she has loads of time to do little jobs around her house/s,she not only has another house,but has the time to go there for the whole summer/easter/Christmas.She cannot be sacked.etc etc.
So heres where you may have dwelt a little longer on the contents of my post!
She ,unlike the two teachers you mention, enjoys having all this, and is humble enough to acknowledge this..and is very thankful for her job .
Some people will never be happy no matter how much they get..some people then get greedy..Thankfully my sister recognizes how lucky she is,which I must say is a much more attractive trait than consistent moaning, when you have it good..
Not true.
Deiseblue;The point I made was that due to anger , bitterness and disillusionment two teacher friends of mine had decided to withdraw from after hours voluntary work with school soccer teams , I also suggested that other teachers of my acquaintance were considering following the same path , I did say that it was sad but that is the reality out there.
Not true.
Just FYI - Putting 'Fact' in bold in front of the text doesn't actually make it true.Fiction: Blah blah blah
Fact: Blah blah blah
Just FYI - Putting 'Fact' in bold in front of the text doesn't actually make it true.
Facts aren't matters of anyone's opinion - they are (or are not) facts.in my opinion they are facts
Facts aren't matters of anyone's opinion - they are (or are not) facts.
#291
13-05-2010, 09:28 AM
Deiseblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 169
Let's see how I drew my conclusions.
Hello...what else would cause this anger , bitterness and disillusionment??
If its not money??
Once again like Ive stated several times, you said this was the cause of their withdrawal,
so they are angry at what exactly,bitter at what exactly and disillusioned at what exactly..
The fact that their pay is cut is the blindingly obvious answer.
The clue is in this; they did not withdraw their services until their pay was affected.
What part of that do you not get?
Merriam Webster seems to have a fairly definition of fact to yours - seeWho decides something represented as a fact is the 'truth', let me guess, a person or people, which of course brings subjetivity into play. So, in my (well informed opinion) the facts I have stated are a fair and reasonable representation of reality. Now, if you would care to refrain from playing word games - you might perhaps provide 'factual' rebuttals to the points I have made....
Merriam Webster seems to have a fairly definition of fact to yours - see
[broken link removed]
Unfortunately, if I found it necessary to provide factual rebuttals to all the nonsense posted on AAM about public services and public sector, it would be a full time job.
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