What info can we get from a smart meter

If your provider won't supply consumption with you just send them a data access request under GDPR. It is personal data so they can't deny you. It will probably come in CSV format and you would have to analyse in Excel. It's better than nothing.

Otherwise smart meters are mainly for the benefit of industry and not the consumer! It gives the retailer (like Electric Ireland) insights into your consumption patterns so they can better tailor their price plans to how you consume, and not for the customers' benefit. For the network operator smart meters are probably a bit less useful as they focus on aggregates rather than households and businesses but I am sure there is useful information in there all the same. The other major benefit is that they don't have to send physical meter readers around to your house or even nearby any more.

Your electricity retailer doesn't have a huge incentive to give you access to your consumption data, as it will only cause you to consume less. There is probably adverse selection here - consumers who are most interested in their consumption patterns are most likely to switch. Personally I think the regulator should mandate some kind of "open access" approach to customer data. Some other provider could - via app - give you real-time access to consumption and you could set it to give you alerts when your usage had gone over a certain threshold for a day or the like. There is no real incentive for your retailer to do this as it stands.

Otherwise it would be nice to get to a point where spot electricity prices are better integrated into price plans. Most household consumption like lighting, cooking, refrigeration, etc, is pretty inflexible. But there is scope to consume when demand is low. I tend to time the dishwasher and tumbledryer to work at about 3am when I know that demand at grid level is lowest. There is some social benefit in doing so as demand is spread more evenly across the day but it would be nice to be able to get a private return on this too.

When EVs are in every driveway I think at grid level there will have to be some kind of central demand management system too. You plug your EV in at 6pm and your supplier will guarantee it will be charged by 7am the following day, but the sequencing of this across tens of thousands of EV charging points will need to be controlled centrally to smooth demand.

Personally I have a smart meter but will be staying away from smart tariffs as long as possible - the industry showed their hand in the last week by suggesting those on smart tariffs would have penalties for electricity use during peak times!! So i.e., "incentives" to change electricity use / demand is easier and more profitable to do so by ratcheting up the cost, rather than applying deep discounts at other times.

And they'd need to be deep - a measly 10% reduction during the day, or reduction over night isn't going to change anybody's behaviour. I certainly wont be cooking at midnight, nor running my washing machine as a fire risk while we sleep.

MrEarl said:

I also think that people should be complaining to Minister Eamon Ryan about this carry on.

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I suspect that he'll just forward the complaints to the CRU, who, it should be remembered, are the overpaid, incompetent muppets who allowed this situation to occur in the first place.

It would be nice to hear from the various people who were looking forward to having their smart meters installed think about the situation now.

From Protocol.

"In contrast to you, I am looking forward to smart meters, which are being installed nationwide into every house.

They will allow more sophisticated pricing, e.g. cheaper off-peak rates."

From Zenith63.

"Also looking forward to getting a smart meter in, to be able to see live usage, get away from the estimated bill nonsense, ability to access new tariffs, pushing people to use some of the wind energy the country wastes many nights etc."

I have a smart meter, but I'm not changing to a per-hour billing scheme unless its financially advantageous for me.

A smart meter is a precision semiconductor integrated circuit measurement instrument of electrical energy, whereas a spinning magnetic disk from 1970's is not. Electric vehicles use these circuits, rather than spinning disks to monitor the batteries charge and health for same reason.

I also want my meter read, rather than estimated, in the area I live in the ESB Networks 2G signal works reliably.

So, its the usual , buyer beware; Utility companies or any other companies viz: Oil companies, Telco's are profit making entities, answerable to shareholders, not to the consumer.

And switch provider every 365days, for same reason. Reading that c. 500,000 customers forgo up to 40% discounts on their Elecl & Gas just means more profits for the same corporations, and no amount of hand-wringing or moaning will change this.

F.

fidelcastro said:

A smart meter is a precision semiconductor integrated circuit measurement instrument of electrical energy, whereas a spinning magnetic disk from 1970's is not. Electric vehicles use these circuits, rather than spinning disks to monitor the batteries charge and health for same reason.

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On the subject of accuracy, has anybody else noticed that their usage (in kWh) decreased quite a lot since having a smart meter installed?

I don't think I changed much else around the same time, so I'm wondering if the smart meter is measuring lower usage than my old meter.

Paul F said:

On the subject of accuracy, has anybody else noticed that their usage (in kWh) decreased quite a lot since having a smart meter installed?

I don't think I changed much else around the same time, so I'm wondering if the smart meter is measuring lower usage than my old meter.

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probably down to the actual reads. biggest adv of smart meters is there is no estimates, the numbers are transferred automatically to ESB, then to your provider.

Frank said:

probably down to the actual reads. biggest adv of smart meters is there is no estimates, the numbers are transferred automatically to ESB, then to your provider.

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But I'm talking about long-term averages of usage according to the old meter that are based on an actual reads at the start and the end of the period. That rules out the possibility of estimates skewing the numbers.

Paul F said:

But I'm talking about long-term averages of usage according to the old meter that are based on an actual reads at the start and the end of the period. That rules out the possibility of estimates skewing the numbers.

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Old meters were mechanical so I'd imagine they'd lose accuracy over time as parts wear. Unless your old meter was a digital one.

I used to have one of these:
for monitoring electricity usage real time:
Found it very handy to check for eg when going to bed to make sure all unnecessary stuff was turned off.
This is discontinued, as is the owl/eco-eye monitor and am struggling to find something similar on amazon or elsewhere.
I noticed that in UK all households are given a monitor, and in fact according to several sites such as
everyone here should receive an 'In-Home Display monitor' with their smart meter.
I checked with Electric Ireland and their chat said this is only available for pay as you go:
Am I the only one to not get one of these monitors ?

I got my latest ebill from Electric Ireland today, the first since I had my "smart meter" installed. The bill was ESTIMATED and only up to 2-Sept-2022!! "Real-time billing" is only 11 days late now!! But "the system" is never wrong of course.

Even worse, the bill was for €654.43 for 44 days, the single biggest bill I've ever received for this address since I moved here.

This estimated bill of €654.43 is AFTER they have correctly applied outstanding credits of €263.13 due to me.

They billed me for 1,310 units on the old analogue meter, but the installer and I both took photos of the wheel stopped at 67,946. Apparently, while not connected to my electricity supply, it managed to record an extra 900 units in the back of your man's van. The "smart meter" clocked up an estimated 537 units since installation. This morning the meter reads 200 units used.

I've just done a meter reading and done my sums using our little spreadsheet and "at de enda da day", my actual up-to-the-minute bill is €99.09CR. I'll tell them I'll take a cheque once they report for work!!

I wonder how many poor consumers have been taken for an expensive ride by these incompetents.

In closing, I'll leave you with quotes from their website and my bill:

"Good news,
Your smart electricity meter with MPRN 99999999999 is now online and working correctly. You can now get free access to electricity insights, detailed usage graphs, monthly billing and lots more."

“Your bill is estimated.
To ensure accuracy,
please supply us with
a meter reading. “

Paul F said:

But I'm talking about long-term averages of usage according to the old meter that are based on an actual reads at the start and the end of the period. That rules out the possibility of estimates skewing the numbers.

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I had the same issue and there was discussion of it on Boards - consensus seems to be that the old meters are inaccurate and under-read the usage over time. Between that and the poor value offered by the Smart Tariffs, there's not much incentive to switch to a smart meter.

shweeney said:

I had the same issue and there was discussion of it on Boards - consensus seems to be that the old meters are inaccurate and under-read the usage over time. Between that and the poor value offered by the Smart Tariffs, there's not much incentive to switch to a smart meter.

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But what I'm seeing is a reduction in usage since I got my smart meter. What I can't be of sure of is to what extent that is due to a change in behaviour by me and to what extent it is due to the smart meter (possibly) recording lower usage than the old meter.

email to Electric Ireland Services today, issued at the request of a Customer Services Supervisor

"I enclose a photograph of my new "smart-meter" showing the current reading of 9999 units consumed as of today's date and time 14/09/2022 @ 16:40 hrs. The MR [Meter Registration or ID] is clearly visible as is the label showing the date of installation 10/08/2022 and the name of the installer Mx. S. Citizen of TLI, the installation sub-contractors

Also in the photograph is an appointment letter addressed to me from University Hospital Waterford, dated 12/09/2022. This letter includes my date of birth dd/mm/yyyy in the heading as proof of date, time, and identity.

I also enclose a photograph of the old analogue meter immediately prior to being uninstalled by Mx. S. Citizen of TLI who advised me to take the photo in case of confusion about the works, the meter readings, and follow-up bills. Thank you Mx. S,. Citizen. This shows a reading of 12345 and [it] hasn't turned a wheel since.

Why am I sending you this information? A supervisor in Electric Ireland named O’Citizen advised me to do so because they issued me with an estimated bill, invoice number 123456789, dated dd/mm/yyyy, copy attached. This bill is wildly out of line with my actual consumption, apparently because the closing reading for the analogue meter was entered into the reading for the "smart meter" in error by someone in Electric Ireland.

Before speaking with O’Citizen, an escalation at my request, a customer contact person named MacCitizen, told me my new meter was malfunctioning and it needed the attention of a technician. He went on to say that if no problem was established with the meter I would receive a bill. The meter is working as far as I am concerned and I don't want anyone calling here. Maybe MacCitizen might need some training with paying attention and attitude. Oh and as a customer-facing staff member additional training in the key skill of listening.

I attach my own spreadsheet showing to within a few cents that my account should show approximately €99 CREDIT instead of the €654.43 DEBIT caused by the keyboard problems in Electric Ireland.

I want a new bill issued ASAP, using the readings given above, I want an apology and I want a substantial donation made to [a children’s charity].

As a consumer, maybe change that to customer, all I want is fair treatment and an accurate bill. I haven't had an accurate bill since 16/03/2022. That's 182 days ago, three billing cycles or almost six months ago. Please refer to your customer charter and measure your organisation's performance against it.

If you have any questions about this email or my requirements, please call me at the number below.

Yours, mathepac

+353 99 123 4567

p.s. It'd also be very useful if the "smart meters" could display some simple useful information; the current day's date, for example."

I spent 1 hour and 47 minutes on the phone yesterday to Electric Ireland having received another estimated bill, this time showing a balance owing of €725.71 !!! I was told it would take at least another two weeks before processing my letter referred to above. That struck me as strangely accurate forecast given EI's inability to deal with issues in the here and now. Then it struck me.

On October 1st the VAT rate will change back to 13.5% meaning I will be billed an additional 4.5% VAT on electricity consumed during the 9% reprieve period we were granted. A conspiracy theory too far maybe, but still odd.

I asked the supervisor I was speaking to to stop shouting down the phone at me and to stop speaking over me. She shouted down the phone over my request that she was not shouting at me!

Irony of ironies, this morning I got an email from EI telling me my new "smart meter" was now live! Partial quote

"With our new smart meter products and services, you’ll be able to:

• Choose accurate monthly billing on a date of your choice; no more bill shock or estimated meter readings.
• Monitor your electricity usage daily, weekly or monthly with personalised energy insights and graphs available on your online account.
• Enjoy the choice (based on your usage patterns over time) to move to a time-of-use price plan and use cheaper, greener electricity at night when demand is lower.
• Get tips on how to make better choices to reduce your bills and carbon footprint; e.g. washing your clothes in cold water can reduce energy use by as much as 75%, and it’s better for your clothes."

News to EI, manufacturers have been producing coldwater-only washing machines and dish washers for at least 20 years. Please try to keep up.

I'll repeat my oft-cited reality - technological change is non-deterministic; unless you cahnge the behaviours, attitudes, culture and performance of the organisation it may prove disastrous.

From the bottom of my latest work of fiction from EI, author unknown of course:

"This invoice replaces inv no 001908036299 issued on the 11 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 001908044457 issued on the 18 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 000007728988 issued on the 21 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 000007730085 issued on the 22 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 001908116251 issued on the 13 Sep 22.
Energy consumption on this bill amounts to approx. 796 kg of carbon emissions.
Your consumption is 196 kWh for this period compared to 44 kWh for the same period last year."

ESB said:

Only 4% of the more than 900,000 smart meter customers are availing of the "time of use" feature

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I wonder if this is them admitting the smart meter plans aren't good value for customers?

ryaner said:

Most smart-meter customers not using key feature

Only 4% of the more than 900,000 smart meter customers are availing of the "time of use" feature, according to the ESB.

www.rte.ie

I wonder if this is them admitting the smart meter plans aren't good value for customers?

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See the article linked here. In many cases the smart plans are offering better value, there is just a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering going on.

From the Indo article linked to above:

"But electricity suppliers have failed to explain the smart meter plan to customers, give them enough information to make informed decisions or offer deals attractive enough to make switching to smart tariffs worthwhile."

No mention of "a lot of misinformation" or evidence in support of the "fear-mongering going on" allegations, just the same ongoing failures on the part of the suppliers.

In better news I received another amended Electric Ireland bill by email earlier. It shows "Total due €77.72cr" much to my relief and vindication.

The bottom of my new invoice now reads:

"This invoice replaces inv no 001908036299 issued on the 11 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 001908044457 issued on the 18 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 000007728988 issued on the 21 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 000007730085 issued on the 22 Jul 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 001908116251 issued on the 13 Sep 22.
This invoice replaces inv no 000007781639 issued on the 19 Sep 22.

Energy consumption on this bill amounts to approx. 293 kg of carbon emissions.

Your consumption is 66 kWh for this period compared to 44 kWh for the same period last year."

7 attempts to get primary school maths correct. Staggering incompetence and inefficiency on the part of Electric Ireland and their over-paid staff. No apology of course

NoRegretsCoyote said:

...smart meters are mainly for the benefit of industry and not the consumer!..

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This is the elephant in the room, and based on the debate this week, the media seemed to have missed this point too.

If they are so confident in their smart tariffs being better for consumers, why not allow consumers to switch back if they don't like them??????