What does this phrase mean to you ?

frankmac said:

Sounds typically "Irish" to me

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As an aside remark from the thread quoted above.
Am I the only person who is annoyed by the phrase 'typically Irish' ?
I have only ever in my life heard it said in a negative connotation.

The most recent example and a true story of when I heard it last was while waiting for a bus in Merrion Square sometime last May.

The bus driver stopped the bus about 20 feet after the bus stop. When we ran and caught up with the bus it then took off just as we were about to board.
A woman who had been running for the bus with me, overweight and overheated by the run as she was, said in her best English accent 'typically Irish' which in the context I was quite offended by as she sounded quite disgusted and upset.
I dont see any reason why 'typically Irish' should'nt refer to an economic miracle or a myriad of good things yet I have never heard it expressed in anything but a negative context. I dont consider myself hypersensitive but I do consider myself hypercurious about the world I live in.
Similarly the phrase 'taking the mick' sounds very dodgy to me as when I grew up your private parts shared Mickey Mouses' first name.

So are there any views out there on all of this ?


Regards

sign

I just think it's one symptom of 'post colonial low self esteem disorder'.

What a visitor may see as quaint self deprecating wit, I see as second guessing a negative national slur.

In the context you originally quoted from, you could either extract:

a) How ingenious of the modern-day, financially aware Celtic Tigers to find a way to extrapolate cash streams from casual potential customers.

b) How typical of this greedy little country that now we're being bleedin' charged to ask questions in a shop.

Is that glass half-empty or half full?

sign said:

Similarly the phrase 'taking the mick' sounds very dodgy to me as when I grew up your private parts shared Mickey Mouses' first name.

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I'm fairly sure by the way that 'taking the mick' is cockney rhyming slang
(taking the Mickey Bliss) & completely unrelated to referring to the Irish as 'Micks'.

I am sure these phrases originated in england ,punch cartoons etc

They seem to have passed into common slang and lost there original ethnic venom

capall said:

I am sure these phrases originated in england ,punch cartoons etc

They seem to have passed into common slang and lost there original ethnic venom

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Absolutely; have you ever noticed that although there's Paddy, Taffy and Jock, there isn't a mildly disparaging epithet for an Englishman.
Probably because the English are the only ones using them.

sign said:

As an aside remark from the thread quoted above.
Am I the only person who is annoyed by the phrase 'typically Irish' ?
I have only ever in my life heard it said in a negative connotation.

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I think people use such phrases in association with stereotypes of every country and stereotypes are almost always negative.

If someone said "typical Brits" would it conjure up images of colonialism and hooliganism? Would the phrase "typical Scot" be employed in relation to Scottish person who was behaving in a somewhat frugal manner? Would a narcissitic Italian be regarded as a "typical Italian"?

I dunno I think its healthy to take a step back and have a laugh at your own expense, The 'typically Irish' line is typically used by Irish people!. We work well as the underdogs and if some peoples perception of us it thick paddy's it really is their problem. We have it here in other ways; 'Jackeens' are crafty gougers and 'culchies' are thick boggers. On the surface alot of these phrases are annoying, but really they are just ignorant words that have lost all meaning.

Hoagy said:

Absolutely; have you ever noticed that although there's Paddy, Taffy and Jock, there isn't a mildly disparaging epithet for an Englishman.
Probably because the English are the only ones using them.

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Er, how about (whinging) Pom or John Bull or rosbif or (sale) Anglais? (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_British#Pommy)

IMO, taking offence at the phrase "typically Irish" is the "post colonial low self esteem". I think believing that there is a cultural difference between ourselves and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world is a good thing (however negative that thing is!). For sure the manners of employees of Irish state companies have never been good to members of the public, so this could be "typically Irish" when juxtaposed with the politeness received from same in other countries.

yoganmahew said:

IMO, taking offence at the phrase "typically Irish" is the "post colonial low self esteem".

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I dont believe we have any low self esteem as a race despite being in a post colonial era.
You just have to point to the achievements of our relations in the USA (even ignoring our recent success at home) to give one example to know we are world leaders. The late President JFK being 100% ethnically Irish for example gave a speech upon visiting here that if both sets of his grandparents hadnt emigrated to America he would have been working in the Albatros Fertilizer factory across the bridge in Wexford! Just like everybody else who stayed behind.

We live in such a politically correct world that I found the phrase worthy of comment and I was reminded of this woman at the bus stop who appeared to spontaneously say 'typically Irish' with such venom in her voice and facial expression.
I would never say 'typical eastern European', 'typical Romanian' , or 'typical immigrant'. I wouldnt even say 'typical American' despite them being an easy target as I know full well that everybody is different.

I suppose I should clarify that I was referring to Irish people making the comment as suffering from PCLSE disorder(!) It strikes me as a reaction stemming from subservience and a feeling of inferiority.

As regards people of other nationalities saying it, well it's just human nature isn't it? regrettable and nasty though it is, a lot of people revert to lowest common denominator and lazy stereotypes on occasion - especially when under stress. I think most people of most nationalities are guilty of it. If I'm honest it wouldn't be exactly rare for me to have private thoughts of the 'typical English' variety even if I don't articulate them - don't even have anything against the English per se by the way.

Journalists and critics are especially guilty of a form of this in their gleeful readiness to apply labels to get a 'handle' on a 'new' movement or idea etc.

I use the phrase myself, well a version of it: "that's a bit Irish...". I usually find myself saying it about things I would consider stupid eg 24 Hour Bus Lanes, when the buses stop running at 23:30.

And I agree that to be offended is, in my opinion, a symptom of PCLSE disorder

sign said:

The bus driver stopped the bus about 20 feet after the bus stop. When we ran and caught up with the bus it then took off just as we were about to board.

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Ehhh, you don't run for these buses!
When a driver does this, it's because the bus is already full, there's half a dozen people at the stop, but a passenger wants to get off.

efm said:

"that's a bit Irish...". I usually find myself saying it about things I would consider stupid

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I first heard this phrase when I emigrated to England in the 80s.....imagine my surprise when I heard it used here on my return in the 90s! I would NEVER use it myself, as stupidity is universal.

sign said:

A woman who had been running for the bus with me, overweight and overheated by the run as she was, said in her best English accent 'typically Irish' which in the context I was quite offended by as she sounded quite disgusted and upset.

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How is the fact that she was overweight relevant??

Bazoo said:

How is the fact that she was overweight relevant??

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I told the story in 100% detail and left nothing out. She had over exerted herself from the run to the bus and I am guessing this contributed to her mood at the time. I am in no way attempting to slur over weight people as while not being overweight neither am I exactly slim myself

tiger said:

Ehhh, you don't run for these buses!
When a driver does this, it's because the bus is already full, there's half a dozen people at the stop, but a passenger wants to get off.

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Perhaps I should have explained that the bus was only about 65% full and this must have also contributed to the disappointment felt at having to wait another 30 minutes for the next bus. In fact I ended up hailing a taxi.

Bazoo said:

How is the fact that she was overweight relevant??

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Because overweight people are less deserving of our respect and so her comment was all the more offensive. It’s like a bloke in a bar being knocked back by a fat chick

Purple said:

Because overweight people are less deserving of our respect and so her comment was all the more offensive. It’s like a bloke in a bar being knocked back by a fat chick

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Well that could be funny but in all seriousness I began this thread for a serious reason. Ill chosen language in the workplace or elsewhere in society can be a passive form of bullying and I really do want to get to the bottom of peoples perceptions of such language.
How would you feel if abroad and hearing this language and being the only Irish guy in the room ?

Purple said:

Because overweight people are less deserving of our respect and so her comment was all the more offensive. It’s like a bloke in a bar being knocked back by a fat chick

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Years ago I was fighting in London (a black tie affair in the Hotel Russell) and myself and team-mates were celebrating a win (just giving hugs and laughing) and a well attired lady said "Oh, how very irish." As if she'd just stepped in something. I didn't pay much heed, but heard it a number of times in England - but usually people say it like "Well now aren't you not the typical irishman" (when I turned down a drink).

But I've heard people say it here "Typical Croatian", in Saudi Arabia "Bloody Arabs/Saudis", I used it myself when dealing with red tape in Russia "Bloody Slavs/Russians". It's something that just is, wit no sense or brain thought behind it.

Like Gordon Strachan saying "I didn't think it would be this hot in moscow in August, I only ever saw lots of snow here on tv shows"