EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
40,653
what i cant understand and have never understood, why are the CB, Padraig Kissane and all the experts in this area so dismissive of this group.
Hi Tony

The fact that Padraic or anyone else thinks that you don't have a case, does not mean you don't have a case.

I disagreed with Padraic on the BoI staff mortgages. I thought that they had no case, but Francesca gave most of them their trackers back.

So don't be put off by the fact that we don't see your case.

If a few of you think you have a case, then get together. Put a case into the Ombudsman. Don't assume it's time barred. Leave that to the Ombudsman to decide. He might hear the case and leave it up to EBS to claim that it's time barred. If EBS is very confident, they might not invoke the statute of limitations.

Brendan
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
215
Hi Tony

The fact that Padraic or anyone else thinks that you don't have a case, does not mean you don't have a case.

I disagreed with Padraic on the BoI staff mortgages. I thought that they had no case, but Francesca gave most of them their trackers back.

So don't be put off by the fact that we don't see your case.

If a few of you think you have a case, then get together. Put a case into the Ombudsman. Don't assume it's time barred. Leave that to the Ombudsman to decide. He might hear the case and leave it up to EBS to claim that it's time barred. If EBS is very confident, they might not invoke the statute of limitations.

Brendan
Hi Brendan, in fairness you have said that to me before and if i remember correctly i have suggested this before to the group. I feel if enough on this thread feel there is a case to answer we should meet up and prepare a case for the FSPO as i certainly cannot afford court personally and i dont think theres enough people to take a joint case. Brendan has said it here folks so if enough people feel as i do then let us know on this thread and we can discuss what we need to do and provide for an FSPO case. Maybe but maybe there are people who have already got a case in with the FSPO so possibly if those people wish others could maybe contribute help to those. Other than that im all ears as to what if anything we can do. At the end of the day if we got a definition of what a Variable base rate mortgage is through the FSPO that would possibly make or finally kill off this arguement. and why people who signed up for one are now paying an SVR mortgage despite these letters not being in their contract.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
292
I wouldn’t say PK is dismissive of the EBS VBR group per se but there are customers within this group with different individual circumstances. He may feel some have a better shot at redress than others. Remember that we know some fixed to variable base customers have already been redressed.
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
215
Hi B26354, ive seen some different contract wordings on this site and youre probably correct but i wish somebody would tell us what a VBR is so we could progress this or close it once and for all. To remind, my partner went from a 3 year fixed to SVR in 2010 despite her contract saying she would revert to VBR and no sign of SVR on her contract and obvious evidence that the VBR did track ECB. Her contract doesnt have the wording ECB+...% on it however like some appear to have but i still think there is a case to answer due to the ambiguity and what ive said already on this posting re reverting. Its really down to what if anything we can do and any new evidemce coming out as we have been abandoned and left behind it seems. Im all ears as to what if anything people feel can be done if anything, the FSPO appears to be the only route and as ive already said maybe a coming together of heads to thrash it out and bring whatever evidence we do already have to the table from this site and other avenues.
 

WA12345

New Member
Messages
1
A poster on this forum was redressed and put back on the tracker because they had a fixed to variable base contract but also signed a tracker application form
Hi I have been following this thread for a long time, and have indeed myself been fighting my my mortgage rate for 2 years. Even though I applied for a tracker mortgage in 2008 I was told that they were no longer being offered, (when I received my information from the EBS there was indeed a tracker offer in it - I never received this offer, nor did the solicitor named on the offer) so I took the banks advice and applied for a 2 year fixed mortgage, this was to go to a variable base rate at the end of the two years. One of the specific conditions of this fixed term mortgage was that my tracker application be up-to-date. This has been part of my query with the bank to which they simply replied "sorry that was a mistake that condition should have been removed before you were offered your mortgage". I have had many other questions and issues with my mortgage and I have engaged PK, however the EBS still claims I am not impacted. If the person who was redressed in the text above could send a private message I'm would be very grateful as their case sounds very similar to my own.
I wouldn’t say it’s pointless as there are inconsistencies in the documentation that each variable base customer has received. A poster on this forum was redressed and put back on the tracker because they had a fixed to variable base contract but also signed a tracker application form. Other variable base customers have additional documentation confirming the variable base is a tracker rate. Some variable base customers have been informed by EBS that they can’t locate the loan application forms so it can’t be confirmed what type of mortgage the customer applied for in the first place. No harm in getting PK to have a look at your case to see if it’s worth pursuing.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
292
Hi I have been following this thread for a long time, and have indeed myself been fighting my my mortgage rate for 2 years. Even though I applied for a tracker mortgage in 2008 I was told that they were no longer being offered, (when I received my information from the EBS there was indeed a tracker offer in it - I never received this offer, nor did the solicitor named on the offer) so I took the banks advice and applied for a 2 year fixed mortgage, this was to go to a variable base rate at the end of the two years. One of the specific conditions of this fixed term mortgage was that my tracker application be up-to-date. This has been part of my query with the bank to which they simply replied "sorry that was a mistake that condition should have been removed before you were offered your mortgage". I have had many other questions and issues with my mortgage and I have engaged PK, however the EBS still claims I am not impacted. If the person who was redressed in the text above could send a private message I'm would be very grateful as their case sounds very similar to my own.
EBS seemed to have consistently made the same mistake with many variable base customers i.e. indicating that the variable base was a tracker or at the very least being ambiguous about the type of variable rate underlying fixed rate mortgages. These cases really should be brought to the FSPO.
 

whyindeed

Registered User
Messages
14
I submitted my case to the FSPO in the last few days. My case is very similar to tonymac's partner, only we took out our mortgage in 2004 and fixed for 1 year before rolling over to the infamous ' variable base rate'. We receive the usual letter every month from EBS stating they are continuing to investigate our case but advising that a complaint can also be submitted to FSPO accompanying the monthly letter. I've now taken them up on this and await further developments!
 

demoivre

Frequent Poster
Messages
2,650
I submitted my case to the FSPO in the last few days. My case is very similar to tonymac's partner, only we took out our mortgage in 2004 and fixed for 1 year before rolling over to the infamous ' variable base rate'. We receive the usual letter every month from EBS stating they are continuing to investigate our case but advising that a complaint can also be submitted to FSPO accompanying the monthly letter. I've now taken them up on this and await further developments!
Unless something has changed the FSPO won't look at your complaint until you have received a final response letter from your lender ie you have to have exhausted all avenues with your lender first. The FSPO state on their website that when submitting your complaint to them :

" It is vital that you submit the referral letter from the Provider stating that its internal procedure has been exhausted and the complaint cannot be resolved. "
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
215
I submitted my case to the FSPO in the last few days. My case is very similar to tonymac's partner, only we took out our mortgage in 2004 and fixed for 1 year before rolling over to the infamous ' variable base rate'. We receive the usual letter every month from EBS stating they are continuing to investigate our case but advising that a complaint can also be submitted to FSPO accompanying the monthly letter. I've now taken them up on this and await further developments!
Best of luck whyindeed, do keep us posted wont you like i did when i went to PKiss with my partners. I havent given up on an FSPO case yet but was very disappointed with the response i got. Hopefully you have sent in that final response letter with youre application as it is crucial but im sure from seeing youre posts youll have done that.
 

whyindeed

Registered User
Messages
14
I saw that requirement posted on the FSPO website, however, the letter I received from the EBS stating they are still looking into my case also invites me to submit my case to FSPO with a copy of the letter from the EBS. I await a reply from the FSPO so I don't really know what the story is. I'll keep ye posted!
 
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MySunshine

Registered User
Messages
3
Received a letter from EBS today to say that now they have completed their review of customer mortgage accounts with regard to Tracker Rates and their position in relation to my complaint remains unchanged. No surprise there. How long before ombudsman will react now I wonder?! I submitted complaint to him in February...
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
292
Is there any chance our situation will be addressed in the next few months ?
Yes. It was referenced in the Oireachtas meeting (I think McGrath mentioned it?). Decisions likely to be made by the FSPO in coming weeks I’d say.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
292
Not sure if this has been posted before. It’s a definition of a “base rate” by IG who are a large online trading & investment company.

 

Themurph

Registered User
Messages
18
We will just have to wait until ger deering gives his options on what is so obviously an ambiguous contract flaw at the least , if it goes against us I just want to hear someone explain to me what is the definition of a VARIABLE BASE RATE. simple.
 

Metatron

Registered User
Messages
63
Hi all, relatively new to this site, but find it quite good and informative. Under the unfair terms directive contract terms are to be drafted in plain intelligible language and ambiguities are to be interpreted in favour of consumers. The EU Commission has recently published guidance on such matters. I hope someone has brought this guidance to the attention of Mr Deering of the FSPO before he makes a decision on the “variable base rate” cohort.

See link below.

 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
292
We will just have to wait until ger deering gives his options on what is so obviously an ambiguous contract flaw at the least , if it goes against us I just want to hear someone explain to me what is the definition of a VARIABLE BASE RATE. simple.
EBS will provide a retrospective definition of the variable base rate i.e. it’s an SVR. But I do wonder what the FSPO will think if EBS admit there was no definition in the original mortgage documentation that customers signed.
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
215
EBS will provide a retrospective definition of the variable base rate i.e. it’s an SVR. But I do wonder what the FSPO will think if EBS admit there was no definition in the original mortgage documentation that customers signed.
Hi B26354, i do hope that Mr Deering realises that there was no definition as i find it hard to believe that EBS will just admit, rather that theyll somehow be forced to. Agree totally with you that theyll say its an SVR even though weve said numerous times on this site that the letters SVR never appear in this type of mortgage contract and now magically overnight they just decided that they are SVRs.
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
139
So its very simple. IMO ....The base rate provided by ebs in mid 2008 and before was a tracker.

Everyone knows this.

its so bloody obvious its not funny.

ebs was the anglo irish bank of mortgages at the time and to sort all the 'base rate people out and put them on trackers will all just be too much.

so ebs base raters youse are all taking one for the team...so put on the green jersey and suck it up .... then suck up 11+ years of outrageous variable rates ... and then suck it up some more when the banker wages go through the roof... anyday now..methinks

Its election time tho
 

Magsodf

Registered User
Messages
22
Delighted for the AIB lads !! Do you think we’ve a chance now to get our money back ?
 
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