Thirdly, how are IW going to treat tenants that did not receive an application pack? Will they simply charge them for water without any allowances? I think we can all anticipate the outcry if IW proceeded on this basis but how else would they impose the charges?
Water Charges - Landlords ultimately Liable - response from Irish Water
- Thread starter dillons
- Start date
I understand what you are saying Sarenco but in my case I have written to Irish Water by registered post with the up to date details (less the PPSN) of my current tenants and the addresses which they are at.
Yes Irish Water can get details from the PRTB but they may not be up to date as a lot of Landlords often just register a tenant and do not update until the 4 years have expired on the property. I know they are not complying with the law but it does not show up clearly on the PRTB website.
If my experience is anything to go by there are a huge number of rented properties not registered with the PRTB
Yes Irish Water can get details from the PRTB but they may not be up to date as a lot of Landlords often just register a tenant and do not update until the 4 years have expired on the property. I know they are not complying with the law but it does not show up clearly on the PRTB website.
If my experience is anything to go by there are a huge number of rented properties not registered with the PRTB
The mystery to me underlying this whole saga is why IW are not simply accessing the required information from the PRTB as envisaged by the legislation? You would have to assume that the PRTB systems are up to the task at this stage but if this is not the case then I think we have a bigger problem.
The lack of any public intervention from the CER, IW's regulator, on this issue is also a cause for concern. The fact that IW only published a "clarification" on this issue in response to a public request/demand from a senior government minister is not the appropriate way for a public utility to conduct its business.
Finally, I have been personally surprised at the muted media reaction to this issue (which was raised weeks ago on this forum), given the significant numbers of people that are impacted and the large sums involved (when taken in aggregate). Hopefully the recent media attention will prompt IW to put in place a proper system for dealing with changes in the occupation of properties, along the lines of those used by other utility companies.
The lack of any public intervention from the CER, IW's regulator, on this issue is also a cause for concern. The fact that IW only published a "clarification" on this issue in response to a public request/demand from a senior government minister is not the appropriate way for a public utility to conduct its business.
Finally, I have been personally surprised at the muted media reaction to this issue (which was raised weeks ago on this forum), given the significant numbers of people that are impacted and the large sums involved (when taken in aggregate). Hopefully the recent media attention will prompt IW to put in place a proper system for dealing with changes in the occupation of properties, along the lines of those used by other utility companies.
I rent flat A at moment. I have received nothing about water charged for IW or landlord. I'm moving to flat B two streets over at end of month.....what am I supposed to do re: water charges? I certainly don't want to end up paying twice. Total lack of clear information on this from appropriate bodies
Under the relevant Irish Water legislation, there is a presumption that the owner and occupier of a property are one and the same, unless it can be proven otherwise. It seems to me that it would be very difficult for a landlord who has not registered a tenancy with the PRTB to prove that the relevant property is in fact occupied by a tenant without simultaneously admitting to a criminal offence. In such circumstances, discharging a tenant's outstanding water charges might well be the better option!
I see a lot of problems for some Landlords so if that is the situation. I am not an admirer of the PRTB but I have all registered and up to date for my own peace of mind.
Dermot, while I don't mean this as a criticism of your actions, it seems to me that it is unwise to provide personal data (such as names, addresses and other identifiers) in respect of any individual to any body, without the express written consent of the individual concerned, in the absence of an explicit legal compulsion or authority. I would certainly be upset if somebody provided my personal details to anybody without my consent.
This is precisely the sort of situation that a robust system should be able to handle. If other utilities can deal with changes in the occupation of properties, I see no reason why IW cannot put appropriate arrangements in place.
While I am personally convinced that the principle of charging people for water is sound, at this stage I think a political decision should be made to defer the introduction of water charges for a fixed period to allow IW sufficient time to put appropriate structures in place to deal with what is undoubtedly a complex administrative project. Ideally, I would also like to see the completion of the metering exercise before charges are imposed but I accept that is probably wishful thinking on my part.
I note your reply but I am only gave them them the information that I have to give the PRTB (less the PPSN) without the tenants permission. If I had to get their "express written consent" I could end up with the bills myself.
I would not see myself as having broken any privacy laws here?.
I would not see myself as having broken any privacy laws here?.
Agreed but I think we can all agree that everybody would be better off if all landlords went "legit" (whatever about the shortcomings of the PRTB).
Dermot, I genuinely do not mean to imply any criticism and it is clear to me that you have acted in good faith and in a reasonable manner.
Having said that, a landlord has a legal obligation, imposed by statute, to supply certain personal details regarding his or her tenants to the PRTB. There is no such obligation (or entitlement) to provide similar personal details to IW and it seems to me that a landlord acting to protect his or her own position is not a defence to any possible breach of data protection law. I am only speaking hypothetically here and not commenting on any particular situation.
The problem obviously stems from IW's initial assertion (now corrected) that a landlord would ultimately be liable for a tenant's water charges.
Sarenco. No offence taken whatsoever. I had this done before IW issued their clarification. I am just trying to get the best advice that I can. I am the type of person who likes to sit down and get all things sorted out and legit and then forget about it. I am not particularly fond of paperwork like a lot of people. I appreciate your advice and others here as well.
This IW thing is a half baked scheme and information that is factually correct has been very slow in being put out in the public domain.
This IW thing is a half baked scheme and information that is factually correct has been very slow in being put out in the public domain.
I don't think IW know themselves how they are going to solve this problem (and hence the reference in their "clarification" to details being announced "shortly").
Sarenco You should apply for the job of legal advisor. With all the money floating around in that outfit one more would be no problem.
Ha! Seriously though, does the job come with a bonus...
Ditto, did likewise. I asked Tenants to let me know that they had sent in the application and all I got was the sound of silence. I am not picking up a Tenants water bill, I have and am paying enough bills along with PRTB. I left it to Irish Water to make contact and resend application packs to the named Tenants.
The saga continues...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landlords-seek-clarity-on-water-tax-arrears-298916.html
The notion that a private citizen (a landlord) can be legally compelled to act as a debt collection agency for an unrelated private company (Irish Water) is totally bizarre. We are now moving steadily from a mere shambles into farcical territory.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landlords-seek-clarity-on-water-tax-arrears-298916.html
The notion that a private citizen (a landlord) can be legally compelled to act as a debt collection agency for an unrelated private company (Irish Water) is totally bizarre. We are now moving steadily from a mere shambles into farcical territory.
Gerry Canning
Registered User
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There has been such a mess made of this ,there are so many (issues) arising that maybe no-one should pay for now. It is not good to encourage Government when even they belatedly know they have fouled up.
On reading other threads and listening to radio, unless this train is halted and reviewed we are only can kicking the issue.
It is not atall fair that AAM people have to even have queries on what should be simple.
I just can,t see the 90%+ paying that Irish Water seem to need to be EU viable.
So maybe lets just kill this off now ?
At least we can thus avoid pushing it down the road.
On reading other threads and listening to radio, unless this train is halted and reviewed we are only can kicking the issue.
It is not atall fair that AAM people have to even have queries on what should be simple.
I just can,t see the 90%+ paying that Irish Water seem to need to be EU viable.
So maybe lets just kill this off now ?
At least we can thus avoid pushing it down the road.