Was the N7 third lane the biggest waste of money ever?

I read somewhere that anyone can become a driving instructor in Ireland and after reading Ron's comments I can well believe it.

" no becuse you are not giving yourself maxium space to move in the event of an emergancy, sounds weird but its true. if your in the middle you can move left or right."

The middle lane is the most dangerous as u can be hit from both sides and the front and rear. There is no escape route from the middle lane. The safest lane is ... yes the left hand lane as you have the hard shoulder to escape, thats what the hard shoulder is for.

"don don't lose the head. one of the main problems is lane waving, if i'm in and out of the left lane passing trucks OR in the middle lane at a steady speed which is the least likely to cause an accident ????"

This is called in good driving terms " driver anticipation" you dont weave in and out, you overtake until it is safe to move back in to the left hand lane.

"also a problem in this country is that we teach people to drive to pass the test ( rubbish as it is ) but not for life."

judging by the backlog this is not very successful.

Roadcraft: The Police Driver's Handbook

The simple reason for poor driving standards here is threefold

1) allowing learners to drive unaccompanied

2) not having qualified and vetted driving instructors - see the UK.

3) a lot of drivers are just pig ignorant, how often do u see drivers not stopping to allow other drivers to pull out, turn right, blocking roundabouts, traffic lights, going into places where it says " no entry", not obeying one way systems, signalling stupidly at postage stamp roundabouts, signalling when overtaking parked cars, signalling in car parks, using fog lights when there is no fog, coming round blind bends over the white line, signalling at the last minute, going round roundabouts and not signalling, not overtaking slow lorries and driving right up their This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language so when one wants to overtake they make it impossible to pull back in without forcing a dangerous manouvre, driving too close to the brow of the road, in other words not following the basic principles ie drive safely and show courtesy to other road users.

BUT when they go to the UK they dramitically improve, signal properly, exercise correct lane discipline, appear courteous, WHY becuase they dont want to appear pig ignorant to the other side but to their fellowman in their own country they dont give a monkeys.

There is a hotel in ENNIS near a roundabout and as you exit there is a clear sign saying TURN LEFT ONLY and the number of people I see daily turning right ie crossing 2 lanes of traffic never fails to amaze me. The said roundabout is only about 30 yards from the turn!! that says it all.

Over to Ron.

noah
 
jake108 said:
For you to even ask this question you must have a very short memory. Have you forgotten the backlog of traffic that was constantly around Johnstown? Stupid post!
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Jake ye gob****e, would ye read the full thread and ye might see that my point was about the lack of use of the new lane, not whether or not it should have been built!!
 
NOAH said:
signalling stupidly at postage stamp roundabouts, signalling when overtaking parked cars, signalling in car parks
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Noah I agree with most of yer post but the above three puzzled me - surely all signalling is good driving? Even if yer overtaking a parked car, if ye have to move out slightly to overtake it then that should require signalling, likewise, what harm in signalling in a car park to let someone behind know you are moving into a spot? It might be overkill but too much signalling (as long as you do what you signal you're going to do!) is not a bad thing in my book!
 
NOAH said:
a lot of drivers are just pig ignorant...signalling stupidly at postage stamp roundabouts, signalling when overtaking parked cars, signalling in car parks...
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I make a point of signalling every time I overtake a parked car, pedestrian, cyclist or anything else on the road. I do not count this as ignorant behaviour. On the contrary, I believe it is a worthwhile safety measure, as it will alert any cars behind me of the presence of a possible hazard on the road. Incidentially, a driving instructor recommended this to me almost 20 years ago.

Btw, I would have thought that signalling in car parks is a basic courtesy and a prevention measure against minor collisions.

NOAH said:
signalling stupidly at postage stamp roundabouts... going round roundabouts and not signalling,
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Eh???
 
I would not say that the road is a waste of money but I do think that it is a crying shame that Irish drivers do not know how to use roads. Educate them, I say!

I don't know if it is all the fault of the L platers because there seems to be a general level of ignorance of the rules of the road. I would definintely be in favour of televised ads (although the only one I rememebr from years ago, telling me to "hook around the other car" for right turns always struck me as particularly stupid, at least if there is more than one care trying to turn.)
 
NOAH said:
3) a lot of drivers are just pig ignorant, how often do u see drivers not stopping to allow other drivers to pull out, turn right, blocking roundabouts, traffic lights, going into places where it says " no entry", not obeying one way systems, signalling stupidly at postage stamp roundabouts, signalling when overtaking parked cars, signalling in car parks, using fog lights when there is no fog, coming round blind bends over the white line, signalling at the last minute, going round roundabouts and not signalling, not overtaking slow lorries and driving right up their This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language so when one wants to overtake they make it impossible to pull back in without forcing a dangerous manouvre, driving too close to the brow of the road, in other words not following the basic principles ie drive safely and show courtesy to other road users.
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And how many of us will go to the bother of noting a reg number and reporting it to Garda Trafficwatch (1890-205805) and going to court if necessary for a prosecution?
 
RainyDay said:
And how many of us will go to the bother of noting a reg number and reporting it to Garda Trafficwatch (1890-205805) and going to court if necessary for a prosecution?
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I tried once. Some idiot women nearly blew me off the phone on a roundabout while chatting on her mobile. She was driving a powerful BMW. She was in my opinion qualified to drive a hair dryer. She cut me off, nearly forcing me off the road, when I beeped she took 10 secs out of her phone conversation to gesture wildly at me while she nearly veered into a car on the inside of her. I rang the traffic number, actually got told by the guard that I'd be as well off ringing my local station which I did but not sure what came of it.

It did raise an interesting question I felt.....what happens if something like that ended up in court and it was my word versus hers? I assume as per justice system that she could not be prosecuted on my word of mouth so that would lead me to think about how many people can in reality be prosecuted just by some random punter ringing in???
 
I know of cases where people have reported cases of dangerous driving to the guards and they have said that they would be wasting their time taking it to court as that it is almost impossible to prove.
 
just to clarify the signalling bit, and by the way a item on sky news ireland last night about l platers has filled me with dread, it is going to take a very long time to get a proper pass and fail sytem in place and driving instructors are not vetted in any way, so lets be careful!

1. You do not signal when you are overtaking parked cars, the rule is you must leave sufficient room so that if a door opens suddenly you will not hit it, I checked on this yesterday where I live and on some roads/streets its tricky. When I see a driver ahead overtaking a parked car and signalling I automatically assume they are intending to turn right! eg a car badly parked on the pavement will force a driver to move out but I can see that way ahead and know the cars in front will be forced to move out so no need to signal.

2. Again where I live you will come acoss what is in effect a crossroads but to imporve traffic flow a blob of concrete has been put in middle to mimic a roundabout, it is here I have people signalling on approach that they are turning right and then going straight on but then signalling left when the are on the next bit of straight! and to put a proper cap on it they dont switch off the indicator. This to me is rank bad driving. They are not changing direction by any stretch of the imagination so dont indicate.

3. The one in car parks is a new one to me and I studied it yesteday and yes I can see the logic in some ways, it tells a person I am waiting for a person to vacate a spot, I am waitinf for a spot near the door as I am too lazy to use a space further away and walk a bit BUT I meant signalling when THEY are pulling into a parking bay or turing left or right. Its not necessary but I fear it is here to stay.

drive safely and just to finish to see how it should be done have a look at this link!! and marvel that no one gets injured!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

noah
 
NOAH said:
3. near the door as I am too lazy to use a space further away and walk a bit BUT I meant signalling when THEY are pulling into a parking bay or turing left or right. Its not necessary but I fear it is here to stay.



noah
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So are you saying that if I'm turning into a parking space I should not signal my intention?
 
1) You should signal when moving round a parked car, especially if doing so means that you are going to be moving out of your lane. If there are specific car parking spaces on the road and you are just driving past then yes signalling is pointless. Just because you assume something doesn't mean everyone else does. Assumptions in driving cause accidents.

2) This is just bad roundabout driving. If the roundabout was huge and the same signalling was happening then it would be plain wrong. They should never be indicating right on approach if they are going straight on. However they should indicate left after passing the first exit, regardless of the size of the roundabout.

3) I can't believe that you think people shouldn't indicate in car parks - why not? Surely you are informing people around you of your intentions and the direction you mean to go in. Signalling can only be a good thing in this respect. If I get to the end of a section of car parking and I can go left or right are you advising me I don't signal and just assume everyone should instinctively know which way I intend to turn?
 
I agree. A rule of thumb I would obserb in terms of passing parked cars, people on bikes etc is to indicate if it means going over the central road marking.
 
NOAH said:
3. The one in car parks is a new one to me and I studied it yesteday and yes I can see the logic in some ways, it tells a person I am waiting for a person to vacate a spot, I am waitinf for a spot near the door as I am too lazy to use a space further away and walk a bit BUT I meant signalling when THEY are pulling into a parking bay or turing left or right. Its not necessary but I fear it is here to stay.
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I think the point of indicating if you are waiting for a parking space to be vacated is that you signal to any other car what you are doing. If you imagine that you are plonked in the middle of a row of cars waiting for a space, the car behind might not be able to see what you are doing. That car will then most likely think you are being a bit thick just sitting there and not moving...
 
legend99 said:
I rang the traffic number, actually got told by the guard that I'd be as well off ringing my local station which I did but not sure what came of it.

It did raise an interesting question I felt.....what happens if something like that ended up in court and it was my word versus hers? I assume as per justice system that she could not be prosecuted on my word of mouth so that would lead me to think about how many people can in reality be prosecuted just by some random punter ringing in???
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Many court cases are about A's word against B - that's why we have judges (in the lower courts) and juries (in the higher courts) - to assess the evidence and make a judgement. My experience with the TrafficWatch line is that once the incident has been recorded on their system, it has to be followed up. It is assigned to somebody and progress is tracked. If you go into the local station or ring the station, it is easier for them to brush you off and leave the incident without any tracking.

I find it very strange that the Traffic Watch line would try to brush you off. I would have pushed them to record the incident.
 
RainyDay said:
Many court cases are about A's word against B - that's why we have judges (in the lower courts) and juries (in the higher courts) - to assess the evidence and make a judgement. My experience with the TrafficWatch line is that once the incident has been recorded on their system, it has to be followed up. It is assigned to somebody and progress is tracked. If you go into the local station or ring the station, it is easier for them to brush you off and leave the incident without any tracking.

I find it very strange that the Traffic Watch line would try to brush you off. I would have pushed them to record the incident.
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It was a Saturday morning and they told me I'd be as well off ringing local station....
 
was on this for the first time today since the improvements and it struck me that for once they got it right-its now much safer and it appears to me to be future proofed-unlike the M50-shouldnt have to do much to it in the years to come
 
did it at the weekend, lovely road and no traffic or dodgy junctions .
 
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