Warning to landlords considering HAP tenants

Sconeandjam said:
I think you are on something like RAS and they could have put it under the HAP scheme.

I heard there is a 22 page document that is used to inspect the house under HAP and the inspector basically ticks off the list. Any house not built before 2016 will fail the inspection.
Do the council want their tenants housed or not?

If you put extra vents in the tenant will fill with socks and clothing. The landlords are doing the council a favour housing the tenant and they have huge costs just to put to 2016 building code. The tenant will have to leave while changes are being made and in that case the tenant will not get back in.
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its not RAS , what im in is the long term lease scheme , you take a 20% below market rate but i argued with the council in favour of a high market rate , didnt think they would agree to such a reference point but they did so i receive 850 per month , i have no dealings with the tenants and once january 27th arrives ( six months from commencement of lease ) , im not even responsible for electrical appliances , painting or furniture which breaks , i am responsible for structural maintainance , property tax and insurance .

sticking to the point ,i was failed the first day but he came back within a week once i notified him that i had carried the requested improvements , i think it might be the luck of the draw as to who you get , inspector i had was a very nice man and very reasonable , even fitting the duct pipe through attic and fitting two slate vents wasnt especially expensive , i just think its the wrong decision , inspector is only working off someone elses rule book , most of them hammer you on ventilation , my guy accepted that the living room downstairs would have to do with trickle vents as i couldnt vent it through the attic and two drilling companies i asked , refused to drill through stone , the rest of the downstairs area is open plan and the kitchen is a block built new extension so wall vents not a problem .

i saw no 22 page document or anything like it , again i guess i was lucky who visited me .
 
galway_blow_in said:
its not RAS , what im in is the long term lease scheme
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Completely different schemes there, but I've never seen the long terms lease standards or inspection sheets, so can't comment on that aspect.

One very significant difference though, in the long term lease scheme the LA is the landlord, so they are legally responsible for ensuring the property is maintained to minimum standards. With HAP, it is the home owner. My guess is LA employed inspectors won't be quite as demanding when inspecting properties the LA are responsible for maintaining.
 
Leo said:
Completely different schemes there, but I've never seen the long terms lease standards or inspection sheets, so can't comment on that aspect.

One very significant difference though, in the long term lease scheme the LA is the landlord, so they are legally responsible for ensuring the property is maintained to minimum standards. With HAP, it is the home owner. My guess is LA employed inspectors won't be quite as demanding when inspecting properties the LA are responsible for maintaining.
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Could well be, I've only the one single residential property but we're I to buy another ( no plans currently), I think I would go with the long term lease option again, way I see it the state has so much power over property now, you might as well have the state as tenant

I bought in a disadvantaged area so did not want dealings with tenants, only been five months but no issues so far
 
Update.....
Since I originally wrote this post six months ago I have ignored the second “extreme” list of corrective action and have heard nothing from them.
Strange??!!
 
Most inspections throughout the country are done by the council inspector, and its a very basic check that the house meets the same standards for ALL rented properties. There are no extra standards for HAP housing, as some landlords claim.

Your claim that you lose rent is also bogus. HAP is paid in arrears but landlords can and always do ask the tenants for the deposit and the first month up front, which they cover themselves, and then the arrears of Hap are used for the next month. So you are in a better position than non HAP landlords as you are guaranteed the last months rent, where you would not be otherwise.

If you have a demand to improve your property it means you are below the minimum legal standard for all rented dwellings and that's on you, its no-one elses fault or problem that you have not managed to provide the low minimum legal standards without being forced to do so.

As for warning other landlords off from HAP tenancies, I hope you and they know that it is illegal to discriminate against HAP tenants? Am surprised the website allows this...
 
Sconeandjam said:
.

I heard there is a 22 page document that is used to inspect the house under HAP and the inspector basically ticks off the list. Any house not built before 2016 will fail the inspection.
Do the council want their tenants housed or not?
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You hear wrong. I have it in front of me, its 7 pages long and minimal. Inspection takes ten minutes and most pass.
 
Magpie said:
Your claim that you lose rent is also bogus. HAP is paid in arrears but landlords can and always do ask the tenants for the deposit and the first month up front, which they cover themselves, and then the arrears of Hap are used for the next month. So you are in a better position than non HAP landlords as you are guaranteed the last months rent, where you would not be otherwise.
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I don't believe you can legally ask for a double payment for the first month. This would also not apply in cases where a tenancy switches to HAP shortly after moving in, this happens quite a bit as tenants who can afford the extra up-front are afraid to mention HAP prior to occupying the property.

Magpie said:
If you have a demand to improve your property it means you are below the minimum legal standard for all rented dwellings and that's on you, its no-one elses fault or problem that you have not managed to provide the low minimum legal standards without being forced to do so.
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I've only seen a couple of reports, and as you say, they are fairly short but they are open to interpretation and I have seen a demand for CO2 detectors in an apartment with no source of open combustion which is in excess of housing regs.
 
I was asked by a DCC inspector to provide fire evacuation plans for all 4 apartments in a 2 story house. I was also asked to remove smoke detectors with 10 year battery life and
replace them with mains operated detectors. Total cost €1200 . This is nonsense - I dont deal with HAP anymore because of this.
 
Magpie said:
Most inspections throughout the country are done by the council inspector, and its a very basic check that the house meets the same standards for ALL rented properties. There are no extra standards for HAP housing, as some landlords claim.
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You seem very certain of yourself. You don't tell us the basis of your experience with HAP or related inspections.

Meeting standards can in many instances be a matter of interpretation.

I had a pre-Hap inspection and a number of issues were addressed. A few years later I had a second inspection and a number of issues were identified which had been unchanged since the original inspection. The adherence to standard or otherwise had not changed, but the inspectors interpretation had.
 
Leo said:
I don't believe you can legally ask for a double payment for the first month. This would also not apply in cases where a tenancy switches to HAP shortly after moving in, this happens quite a bit as tenants who can afford the extra up-front are afraid to mention HAP prior to occupying the property.

.
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There is nothing stopping you having two months deposit.

My tenant were moved into HAP.Once I realised this would be rent in arrears the tenant's had to pay me an extra month so that I had a deposit. The tenants paid it over time to make it easier for them.
 
Magpie said:
If you have a demand to improve your property it means you are below the minimum legal standard for all rented dwellings and that's on you, its no-one elses fault or problem that you have not managed to provide the low minimum legal standards without being forced to do so.
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Then how do you account for one landlord having to do stupid venting and another being given out to for vinyl flooring.
 
robert 200 said:
I was asked by a DCC inspector to provide fire evacuation plans for all 4 apartments in a 2 story house. I was also asked to remove smoke detectors with 10 year battery life and
replace them with mains operated detectors. Total cost €1200 . This is nonsense - I dont deal with HAP anymore because of this.
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Can you breakdown those figures. I got my electrician to put in a mains battery when he was doing some work for me and it didn't cost anything like the amount you paid.
 
Bronte said:
There is nothing stopping you having two months deposit.

My tenant were moved into HAP.Once I realised this would be rent in arrears the tenant's had to pay me an extra month so that I had a deposit. The tenants paid it over time to make it easier for them.
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Correct, but that wasn't the situation suggested in the post I was replying to. Asking for an additional month's deposit during an established tenancy could be problematic.
 
cremeegg said:
Sorry Horseman, this is a distraction. The applicable standards are set out in the

HOUSING (STANDARDS FOR RENTED HOUSES) REGULATIONS 2017
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/pdf

Any checklist an inspector may have for his own use has no legal standing.
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Correct me if I am wrong but these are the standards for rental accommodation, the standards for HAP are greater than these and I wanted to see a copy of the checklist for HAP.
 
Leo said:
Correct, but that wasn't the situation suggested in the post I was replying to. Asking for an additional month's deposit during an established tenancy could be problematic.
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In what way problematic? I'm happy, HAP is happy and the tenant is happy.
 
Bronte said:
In what way problematic? I'm happy, HAP is happy and the tenant is happy.
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It's a breech of the terms of your contract. A provision to limit deposits to one month is also included in the measures Eoghan Murphy is seeking to introduce.
 
Leo said:
It's a breech of the terms of your contract. A provision to limit deposits to one month is also included in the measures Eoghan Murphy is seeking to introduce.
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No it's not. It's supposed to be one months deposit and rent in advance. HAP pays me in arrears. They broke my contract with the tenant. In any case if we all agree we can modify a contract.

Also speaking of illegality, HAP are illegally withholding 20% of the rent.

I'm aware that Threshold wishs the minister to make it one month's deposit. I think three months is fairer because of the damage some tenant's do. I've no issue with a deposit scheme. Because I bet anything landlords like me who don't make deductions from deposits will be the winners.
 
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