Vulture fund,civil bill

Thirsty said:
I would 100% agree with ensuring everything is in writing and stop any further phone conversations.
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I have heard this recommended several times and I have yet to hear any rationale for this.

From my extensive experience attending the repossession hearings, the Registrars love hearing the borrowers saying that they did everything they could, but the bank made it difficult. I can see no advantage in allowing the lender to tell the Registrar that Mr Air refused to take any calls and insisted that all contacts would be in writing.

And the staff in the bank might change. You might well get someone who might be flexible with you.

So take calls and make calls. And follow up each call with an email summarising the content of the call.


Brendan
 
I have attended repossession hearings.

The Registrar is hugely sympathetic when people are paying something.

However, she is always on the look out for people who are paying ducks and drakes or acting the maggot. Someone who refuses to take calls is viewed with sceptism.

Part of the process is getting the Registrar on your side; in Dublin certainly, my sense is that she wants to be. So pay something, go to Court every time, and engage with the bank. The banks are so badly organised that they'll generally shoot themselves in the foot for you.

But under no circumstances should you follow that crazy advice to stop paying and be obtuse around communication methods.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I have heard this recommended several times and I have yet to hear any rationale for this.
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The rationale is simple: it acts as a record of communication if it is all written. This may come as a surprise, but banks involved in cases like this will say pretty much anything on the phone, including telling flat out lies, and then later deny it. I take the point that refusing to take phone calls may seem to not cooperating completely, but if you want to avoid this you've little option. A possible compromise is to summarise any phone conversation in writing, send it to them and say if you haven't heard back in 10 working days to say differently you'll take it that they agree it's an accurate record of the conversation.

Regardless of how it's done I can't emphasise enough to keep records of all communications.
 
"...rationale for this."

The following is from personal experience

1. Regular staff turnover, Joe says he has no record of Mary's previous agreement.

2. You absolutely must have a paper trail.

3. Few people deal well with stressful situations at the best of times; you will quite possibly either forget or mishear what is said to you.

4. Some (and I stress *some*) bank staff have little or no training. I'm personally aware of a case where a terminally ill person was hounded with phone calls and details of the medical condition were on file and were known.

5. Whoever is ringing you most likely has no authority to settle anything.
 
Thirsty said:
3. Few people deal well with stressful situations at the best of times; you will quite possibly either forget or mishear what is said to you.
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I'd say it's a stronger case then that: it is next to impossible anyone, not just a few, to focus on a conversation and keep notes at the same time, especially on the phone. For the same reason, if by chance you do get a meeting (vulture funds seem more willing to have these then banks) make sure you bring someone along with you to take notes. I've just seen (partial) minutes for a meeting I was at two months ago that are completely at odds with what was actually said. I'd already sent a summary of the meeting the day after it happened that went uncontested at the time, which makes it difficult for them to make these stick.

That brings up another point: do not underestimate the lender's level of incompetence - use it to your advantage; the better your own records are and level of preparedness, the more you will show this up to any third party who gets involved.
 
newtothis said:
A possible compromise is to summarise any phone conversation in writing, send it to them and say if you haven't heard back in 10 working days to say differently you'll take it that they agree it's an accurate record of the conversation.
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which is exactly what I said...

Brendan Burgess said:
So take calls and make calls. And follow up each call with an email summarising the content of the call.
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Apart from the bit about saying "If I have not heard back from you..."

If you are trying to get a deal, don't make it complex and legal. Talk to people. Follow up with a summary of the conversation by email. Let them challenge your summary if it's incorrect.

Brendan
 
It's important to realise that the Registrar's Court doesn't lend itself to minor points or "he said/she said". My take on it is that the Registrar is under huge pressure in terms of time and volume of work. The borrower has a limited window to demonstrate bona fides, so it's best to focus on:

- The fact that the borrower is making payments.
- The fact that the borrower is showing respect for the Court and for the process by showing up every time.
- The fact that the borrower is engaging with the bank.
- Defending any spin put forward by the bank (e.g. describing a matured loan as "arrears").

My overriding view is that the Registrar wants to be on the side of the borrower but displays professional scepticism around the fact that the borrower may be a spoofer. The aim of the borrower should be to wash that away.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
My overriding view is that the Registrar wants to be on the side of the borrower but displays professional scepticism around the fact that the borrower may be a spoofer. The aim of the borrower should be to wash that away.
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That is a really good summary of my experience in circuit courts in Dublin, Wicklow and Meath and ties in with descriptions from other courts.
 
Hi Open air and everybody

Just to point out that Open air appears to meet the main criteria for a "no-veto" PIA, that is, being in mortgage arrears on the family home as of 1 January 2015.

A "no-veto" PIA may be worth exploring. A potential proposal could involve adjusting the mortgage balance to the approximate value of the property, adjusting the term of the mortgage and the repayments to fit Open air's proven repayment capacity of €520 a month. Although it is an involved process, the big advantage is that the agreement of the lender is not needed, it gets imposed on the lender by a judge. Also, one of the first steps when applying for a PIA is the obtaining of a protective certificate. This would halt Tanager's civil bill for repossession allowing time for the PIA to be formally proposed.
 
Thank' s guys for ye're advice.I have a family member who is mortgage free and has a big savings amount.He is retiring next year and will be getting a 70,000 lump sum from work.He said to offer them 30-40 k and see if they would accept it as a final settlement and i could pay him back over a few years.I said i would,but to be honest im afraid they would laugh at me down the phone.I wouldnt borrow it to pay arrears as i wouldnt manage both payments at the same time.What ye think?,,given circumstances with boundaries and the like,,would they look at it or just laugh it off
 
Open air said:
.....or just laugh it off
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I'd advise you to step back and think about that last statement: if all you're worried about is being laughed at then things are going well for you! What's the worst that can happen if you made the offer? You have absolutely nothing to loose (though don't give any indication there may be more forthcoming if they ask how it's being funded.).

I'd also advise trying to get someone to act for you, by the way, as any advice you get here is necessarily general in nature.
 
Well there would not be more forthcoming,,,,that is the max he said he would give if we wanted.When you say someone else to act for me what do you mean?
 
Agree with advice given ....
1. Stop taking phone calls , they are recorded and can be taken out of context .
2. Keep everything in writing .
3. Continue to pay what you can reasonably afford . Don,t be too (miserable) on your own outgoings.

With the site place issue , I can,t see Tanager coming out without @ least a large haircut.
I would think Tanager hasn,t complied fully with consumer mortgage appeal processes.
You say a rural site with k188 mortgage . k188 seems more than it might be worth.
I understand your stress but from what I see you are in a strong negotiating position .
a. Tanager will have site issues = house hard to sell.
b. Your case is not being properly looked @ by Tanager, looks like just going through the motions .
b. Rural area = probably hard to sell at a price near to k188.
c. Avoid the Freeman type people.

Strongly agree , go to court and tell the truth .Let us know how you get on , please.
Good luck.
 
Thanks gerry i will keep ye all posted,,thanks for opinion.All of the opinions given have helped hugely
 
All done today guys,automatic adjournment for 3 months.From hearing other cases in the court today,,tanager are on slippery ground!
 
No orders handed out brendan,he said he was sick of the vulture funds feeling that they did not have to go through the same procedures as the regulated banks.He is not a vulture lover,firm but very fair,you couldnt ask for more.He really made people feel comfortable in the court
 
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