Voting is a farce

[Marion]

I take the electorate to mean all those who are eligible to vote - not those who actually vote.

You wonder why don't people go out and vote. It may well be apathy.

But, I would also hazzard a guess that people are essentially happy with their own lives - even if not voting means having to put up with a dodgy politician in the area. Maybe it's a form of selfishness?

In general, people will become politically motivated on issues where they themselves are immediately affected.

Marion

 

[ClubMan]

This is always the same answer that comes back. Sorry - I don't buy it.

Just because you may have heard the same answer before and you don't buy the answer doesn't render it invalid.

 

[Gabriel]

I take the electorate to mean all those who are eligible to vote - not those who actually vote.

Isn't the electorate made up of the number of people registered to vote?


If you want to think it's something else that's fine...but it's not. If it were what you were saying we'd have 100% turnouts every election!

Maybe it's a form of selfishness?
Marion

Equating not voting with selfishness is very naive.

It has far more to do with people's disbelief that anything changes. If you have very poor choice then what's the point?

In general, people will become politically motivated on issues where they themselves are immediately affected.

Very true.

Just because you may have heard the same answer before and you don't buy the answer doesn't render it invalid.

It renders it invalid for me personally, especially when no one is even close to recognising it as an issue for the government and not *necessarily* for the individual. Far too much 'ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country' lark for my liking.

 

[Gabriel]

I think the point gabriel is that you seem to be waiting for the low turnout of voters to start bothering the politicians. And it should. But I think the reality of it is that those politicians who are most corrupt are going to be least bothered by this as they will always have their people to vote them back in.

Maybe true but I'm not waiting for anything actually

What I'm saying is whatever low percentage turnout we have for every election speaks volumes about how people actually feel about politics in this country.

Right now I'm not sure how much politicians care. They'd care a lot more if FF and FG were neck and neck in the polls.

 

[shnaek]

They'd care a lot but probably about the wrong things, like local incinerators, roads, hospital closures etc. instead of thinking about the future and our disasterous urban planning and car dependant society, disasterous health system and lack of basic amenities in large housing estates people used to call villages.

 

[ClubMan]

It renders it invalid for me personally, especially when no one is even close to recognising it as an issue for the government and not *necessarily* for the individual. Far too much 'ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country' lark for my liking.

My comments were not made in the context of an "ask not what your country etc." approach but rather in the context of suggesting a realistic/practical route to those who feel that there is nobody worth voting for and (by virtue of the fact that they comment on this) are obviously exercised by this rather than being totally apathetic.

 

[RainyDay]

They'd care a lot but probably about the wrong things, like local incinerators, roads, hospital closures etc. instead of thinking about the future and our disasterous urban planning and car dependant society, disasterous health system and lack of basic amenities in large housing estates people used to call villages.

SO they care about the things that their constituents bring to them - right? When are their constituents going to start thinking/talking/worrying about the big picture?

 

[Marion]

I actually meant eligible to vote in the sense of those who are registered but clearly it has a different meaning.

Some people won't ever vote. That's their prerogative. We live in a democracy.


Marion

 

[redbhoy]

Why do some people always try to make light of arguments on subjects like this.
i.e bring on the totalitarian state and throw us in Guantenemo if we make voting compulsory.
Like it or not we've had huge success as a country over the last few years. Enormously fruitful years but have we benefited as much as we could have.
No!
Why? Because the government will only start doing things it should if people scare them into thinking that the status quo is about to be upset.
i.e. the time when FF succumbed to the demands of one elected representative- Tony Gregory! They would have done anything to stay in power. Even looking after the people from the North inner city who up til then were left in a state of squalor!
Why is voting not made compulsory?- because the government wouldnt know what would happen after the next election!

 

[Gabriel]

Why is voting not made compulsory?- because the government wouldnt know what would happen after the next election!

I'd imagine if you talked to any lawyer it has far more to do with civil liberties.

 

[shnaek]

SO they care about the things that their constituents bring to them - right? When are their constituents going to start thinking/talking/worrying about the big picture?

Exactly my point. This points out a flaw in the democratic system. Ireland is a country, not a collection of federated counties. Being from Tullamore I know well the benefit of having a minister in a home town. Still, the good of the country should come first.

 

[ClubMan]

Some people won't ever vote. That's their prerogative. We live in a democracy.

I agree. Many times when I could not in conscience vote for any candidates standing I have always used my vote but spoiled it to make sure that it was not used by somebody else. I don't believe that voting should be made compulsory either but I don't understand why some people moan about the system and then moan about practical suggestions/advice given to them by others.

 

[Marion]

I have little regard for people who will not make their intentions known at a meeting or at a vote but who will, after the event, attempt to usurp the democratic process by undermining it, or attempt to ridicule a decision made by others who acted in good faith.

If people have principles and have registered an objection to a vote because they are conscientious objectors - well, in my opinion, that's a different issue.

Marion

 

[Gabriel]

I have little regard for people who will not make their intentions known at a meeting or at a vote but who will, after the event, attempt to usurp the democratic process by undermining it, or attempt to ridicule a decision made by others who acted in good faith.

If people have principles and have registered an objection to a vote because they are conscientious objectors - well, in my opinion, that's a different issue.

Marion

Funnily enough I have little time for people who fail to realise the importance of an issue - being blinded as it were by their own vindications - and who instead attempt to belittle others due to their own lack of understanding.

I don't think anyone here, so far, has been trying to usurp the democratic process. I'm certainly not. I believe democracy is the best system we have (so far). What I'm trying to point out is that many people don't bother voting as they don't believe there's anyone worth voting for. Whether FF, FG or Labour are in power I doubt we'll notice much difference to be honest. That's my point.

but I don't understand why some people moan about the system and then moan about practical suggestions/advice given to them by others

What practical suggestions have been offered? Did I miss them? Spoiling your vote? Is that one?
I think you may be answering the wrong question then...the question we need to be asking is not 'why can't we get people to vote'....it's why aren't people voting? That brings us to the core of the issue - namely the g******es we have as TD's.
Let's say I don't like the fact that FF have been in power for the past x number of years. Would you have me vote for Enda Kenny's party?? I'd rather have a toaster running the show :|

 

[Marion]

Gabriel, your stated point is very clear. You are a conscientious objector.

The spoiled vote might be a crude method of showing ones dissatisfaction but I think it has its merits. At least a message of sorts is being given.

At the moment, in the results of an election how can you be distinguished from those who have not voted because they have no political opinions or have no interest in voting? As a conscientious objector, how do you make known your dissatisfaction with your candidates to enable change to be effected?


Perhaps more people would be encouraged to turn up to register their dissatisfaction if ballot papers were to have a specific space where people could lodge their objections?


Marion

 

[Teabag]

I am inclined to agree with Gabriel.

I have been eligible to vote for 15 years and I have only voted in 1 referendum. I have never voted in a general election because I never perceived any candidate in my constituency worth voting for - and I dont particulary care whether its FG, Lab, PD or FF in power or a combo. I detest certain politicians in every party but there are some damn good ones too. If Michael Martin was in my constituency, I would certainly go out and vote for him.

As time goes by, I am getting less and less interested in Irish politics. I salute the people who are committed and interested in Irish politics but some of us just dont care. Thats life.

 

[Teabag]

As for making voting compulsory - that is insane.

It is compulsory in Australia - when i was there, some old guy (70+) was jailed for refusing to vote. Unbelievable.

 

[ClubMan]

What practical suggestions have been offered? Did I miss them?

Obviously you did.

I think you may be answering the wrong question then...the question we need to be asking is not 'why can't we get people to vote'....it's why aren't people voting? That brings us to the core of the issue - namely the g******es we have as TD's.

That's precisely the question that my suggestions above address. However, on the evidence of this thread, I'm not sure if people who want to just moan about the system running for election would reduce the alleged g******e quotient in the Oireachtas to be honest.

 

[ClubMan]

As time goes by, I am getting less and less interested in Irish politics. I salute the people who are committed and interested in Irish politics but some of us just dont care. Thats life.

You don't care enough to vote yet you care enough to engage in ridiculous populist publicity stunts? Maybe you should run for office too.

 

[Teabag]

It worked a treat Clubman ! The Grocery Act is no more !