Couldn't agree more..... and remember..... The oldest joke in the wine industry goes that there's a sure—fire way to make a small fortune in the wine industry: start with a large fortune.
Vineyards in France.
- Thread starter shootingstar
- Start date
galwegian44
Registered User
- Messages
- 350
ShootingStar - I would always recommend people to follow their dreams, assuming they have a good business head and oddles of common sense in order not to be sideswiped by feelings of emotion. Once you are able to view potential proposals with a calculated approach then go for it....there is nothing quite like making money doing something that you would do for nothing, regardless of the hard work involved.
I looked at a much smaller investment opportunity in a vineyard in the Languedoc region a few years ago and there may be some information in the attached link (and PDF) that could prove useful to you. Good luck with your venture and leave your emotions at home - [broken link removed]
I looked at a much smaller investment opportunity in a vineyard in the Languedoc region a few years ago and there may be some information in the attached link (and PDF) that could prove useful to you. Good luck with your venture and leave your emotions at home - [broken link removed]
Like many Bordeaux winemakers, Mr. Prissette recognised the potential that existed in the
Languedoc region of France where for years only bulk wines were made mainly for blending and
the local cooperatives controlled the market. Prices were low and growers had little incentive to
invest and to improve quality preferring in many cases to sell grapes and/or bulk wine to the
cooperatives to generate cashflow.
Gradually the true potential of the land was realised with discerning young winemakers breaking
with tradition reducing yields and investing in new technology and best viticultural practices. The
result was a new breed of top quality wines with character and class that were capable of rivalling
their more illustrious neighbours in the Rhône valley. Over the past 15 years wines from the
Languedoc have been making their mark on the world stage and obtaining prices never previously
achieved. Villa Symposia is one such example.
Languedoc region of France where for years only bulk wines were made mainly for blending and
the local cooperatives controlled the market. Prices were low and growers had little incentive to
invest and to improve quality preferring in many cases to sell grapes and/or bulk wine to the
cooperatives to generate cashflow.
Gradually the true potential of the land was realised with discerning young winemakers breaking
with tradition reducing yields and investing in new technology and best viticultural practices. The
result was a new breed of top quality wines with character and class that were capable of rivalling
their more illustrious neighbours in the Rhône valley. Over the past 15 years wines from the
Languedoc have been making their mark on the world stage and obtaining prices never previously
achieved. Villa Symposia is one such example.
T
TFTC
Guest
Hi,
I direct a tour company in the South of France and we specialise in wine tours.
We started this business this year as we saw a gap in the market - supplying tailor made tours to English speaking people visiting the area.
Since then, we have met many vineyard owners ( one or two who have relocated from the Uk to do what you are planning SS).
A few pointers :
Here in the Languedoc Roussillon , you will need at least 10 hectares to make your business a sustainable one
You will need to be a jack of all trades : apart from producing wine, you will need to do the advertising, marketing, networking, run an office efficiently, be prepared to deal with french mind boggling bureaucracy and meet/greet people in your home/cave for tastings, etc etc etc
The French rules for making / labelling / marketing / producing / exporting are many and complicated.
It might be an idea to approach a vineyard and ask if you can work there for a period to see how things work before launching into the business yourself
I know of a couple of vineyards which are not for sale on the open market but would be open to investors and/or partners - this might also be an option?
It is back breaking , labour intensive work.
You will need to be able to speak french
It is a rewarding business and yes, you will be living in a lovely part of the world with huge pluses : excellent health care, fantastic standard of living, close to sea and ski, fantastic wine; weather and food etc but you are taking about an extremely labour intensive job - you will need to be fit and strong as well!
Feel free to pick my brains if you like. I live in the Roussillon region where wine is the number one industry.
Bon Chance!
Karen.
I direct a tour company in the South of France and we specialise in wine tours.
We started this business this year as we saw a gap in the market - supplying tailor made tours to English speaking people visiting the area.
Since then, we have met many vineyard owners ( one or two who have relocated from the Uk to do what you are planning SS).
A few pointers :
Here in the Languedoc Roussillon , you will need at least 10 hectares to make your business a sustainable one
You will need to be a jack of all trades : apart from producing wine, you will need to do the advertising, marketing, networking, run an office efficiently, be prepared to deal with french mind boggling bureaucracy and meet/greet people in your home/cave for tastings, etc etc etc
The French rules for making / labelling / marketing / producing / exporting are many and complicated.
It might be an idea to approach a vineyard and ask if you can work there for a period to see how things work before launching into the business yourself
I know of a couple of vineyards which are not for sale on the open market but would be open to investors and/or partners - this might also be an option?
It is back breaking , labour intensive work.
You will need to be able to speak french
It is a rewarding business and yes, you will be living in a lovely part of the world with huge pluses : excellent health care, fantastic standard of living, close to sea and ski, fantastic wine; weather and food etc but you are taking about an extremely labour intensive job - you will need to be fit and strong as well!
Feel free to pick my brains if you like. I live in the Roussillon region where wine is the number one industry.
Bon Chance!
Karen.
as a previous poster suggested, try before you buy, on that side you should google a company called "the noble vine". they are galway based with a french vineyard which they lease in rows ( of vines )
try it on a small scale & see how it goes
regards
westgolf
try it on a small scale & see how it goes
regards
westgolf
J
JeremyS
Guest
My experience buying a vineyard in France.
In 1997 I traded my 1 bed bachelor pad in Redcliffe Gardens for a 7 ha vineyard on a 20ha site in the Corbieres region near Narbonne . Cost 150k . It was a ruin of a house on an amazing site and we fell in love with it. We moved to France,learnt french,made wine (even won medals !) renovated the house (which took ten years and was another nightmare not for this post !) , had children, got divorced etc etc.
Would I do it again. Definately
Did it nearly bankrupt me. Yes
I loved it - all of it from the farming to the winemaking - but the most difficult thing was the bureaucracy. It drives you mad in the end. And the losses. year after year after year.
I made every mistake in the book. I mean every mistake and I am an intelligent wealthy property developer with bags of common sense. I completely lost my heart to the project. It was such a compelling dream and I was going to follow my dream at all costs. No regrets you understand but boy have I made my life difficult along the way.
If I was to do it again (and I certainly would) I would apply the following basic rules.
1. Unless you really are an expert and already in the wine business in the selling end then do not ever expect to make money. Expect to lose lots of money.Even if you make money because you have a ready made distribution channel of pre sales of wine it will never be enough to keep you in the style to which you are accustomed.
2. The objective should be to minimise your losses while enjoying living in a wonderful environment. The best way to do this is to use a "fermier" or tenant farmer to look after your vines and let him grow and harvest the grapes and take them to the local coop. The disadvantage of using a fermier is that you effectively have a sitting tenant on your land and hes hard to get rid of if you dont like him and may reduce the resale value of the property if you want to sell up. The way around this is to use an agreement called a "contrat commodat" which is a 1 year fermage where you lend (for free ) the vines to the fermier and can recover the vines at the end of each year or renew the contract annually.
3. Do not rip up your vines and replant with better varieties. I did this and my property looked horrible for several years while the land was fallow. Very costly also and mature vines are nicer to look at than new ones - which is the whole point isnt it ?
4. Invest doing up your house sensibly but do not spend anything on machinery tractors sprayers cuves etc etc. Its money down the drain but fun to look at when is shiny new.
5.Do not borrow money to fund any of this dream. Only do it if you can pay cash. This was the only mistake I didnt make thankfully.
6. Stay away from the french tax system - unless you are poor in which case go ahead. Try to remain in the UK system.
5.If you are determined to run the whole show yourself and dont want to hire a tenant farmer then please read the above again and prepare yourself for the emotional rollercoaster to poverty which is the lot of all amateurs I came accross who made this crazy decision.
If you do the above and do not have your back up against the wall financially which is the outcome in almost all situations I ve come accross then you will have a wonderful wonderful time. Nothing I have ever experienced has come close to the highs of living in a vineyard paradise eating great food drinking your own wine etc etc.
Other things to think about.
Your wife may well get lonely living in the middle of nowhere. In the end they get fed up and want to go back to the UK.
Try to find some activity to do that pays the bills. This is v difficult in France . I continued to run my UK businesses
This is definately a dream worth following. Mine had a happy ending. I finally saw the light and got a tenant farmer in. I still own the vineyard and the house and will never sell it. It still costs money but is manageable. I visit as often as time allows and am never happier than when I am there.
I'm now making a point of only following dreams that have a good chance of success. Latest project is a golf resort development in Egypt.
Good luck if you take the plunge. I do hope this post will help someone avoid making the mistakes I made.
In 1997 I traded my 1 bed bachelor pad in Redcliffe Gardens for a 7 ha vineyard on a 20ha site in the Corbieres region near Narbonne . Cost 150k . It was a ruin of a house on an amazing site and we fell in love with it. We moved to France,learnt french,made wine (even won medals !) renovated the house (which took ten years and was another nightmare not for this post !) , had children, got divorced etc etc.
Would I do it again. Definately
Did it nearly bankrupt me. Yes
I loved it - all of it from the farming to the winemaking - but the most difficult thing was the bureaucracy. It drives you mad in the end. And the losses. year after year after year.
I made every mistake in the book. I mean every mistake and I am an intelligent wealthy property developer with bags of common sense. I completely lost my heart to the project. It was such a compelling dream and I was going to follow my dream at all costs. No regrets you understand but boy have I made my life difficult along the way.
If I was to do it again (and I certainly would) I would apply the following basic rules.
1. Unless you really are an expert and already in the wine business in the selling end then do not ever expect to make money. Expect to lose lots of money.Even if you make money because you have a ready made distribution channel of pre sales of wine it will never be enough to keep you in the style to which you are accustomed.
2. The objective should be to minimise your losses while enjoying living in a wonderful environment. The best way to do this is to use a "fermier" or tenant farmer to look after your vines and let him grow and harvest the grapes and take them to the local coop. The disadvantage of using a fermier is that you effectively have a sitting tenant on your land and hes hard to get rid of if you dont like him and may reduce the resale value of the property if you want to sell up. The way around this is to use an agreement called a "contrat commodat" which is a 1 year fermage where you lend (for free ) the vines to the fermier and can recover the vines at the end of each year or renew the contract annually.
3. Do not rip up your vines and replant with better varieties. I did this and my property looked horrible for several years while the land was fallow. Very costly also and mature vines are nicer to look at than new ones - which is the whole point isnt it ?
4. Invest doing up your house sensibly but do not spend anything on machinery tractors sprayers cuves etc etc. Its money down the drain but fun to look at when is shiny new.
5.Do not borrow money to fund any of this dream. Only do it if you can pay cash. This was the only mistake I didnt make thankfully.
6. Stay away from the french tax system - unless you are poor in which case go ahead. Try to remain in the UK system.
5.If you are determined to run the whole show yourself and dont want to hire a tenant farmer then please read the above again and prepare yourself for the emotional rollercoaster to poverty which is the lot of all amateurs I came accross who made this crazy decision.
If you do the above and do not have your back up against the wall financially which is the outcome in almost all situations I ve come accross then you will have a wonderful wonderful time. Nothing I have ever experienced has come close to the highs of living in a vineyard paradise eating great food drinking your own wine etc etc.
Other things to think about.
Your wife may well get lonely living in the middle of nowhere. In the end they get fed up and want to go back to the UK.
Try to find some activity to do that pays the bills. This is v difficult in France . I continued to run my UK businesses
This is definately a dream worth following. Mine had a happy ending. I finally saw the light and got a tenant farmer in. I still own the vineyard and the house and will never sell it. It still costs money but is manageable. I visit as often as time allows and am never happier than when I am there.
I'm now making a point of only following dreams that have a good chance of success. Latest project is a golf resort development in Egypt.
Good luck if you take the plunge. I do hope this post will help someone avoid making the mistakes I made.
shootingstar
Registered User
- Messages
- 634
Thank you so much for everyones input, were very grateful. this thread has provided excellent info and advice. I have printed it off and will study it carefully. Any further info gratefully received.
i will defo be onto ye over the next few weeks... many thanks (god everytime i think about it i get flutters)
I just love even talking about it....
i will defo be onto ye over the next few weeks... many thanks (god everytime i think about it i get flutters)
I just love even talking about it....
stuartmccorm
Registered User
- Messages
- 23
look at the languedoc, biggest wine growing region in the world plus 300 days of sunshine per year!!
like all businesses check the books!! you need sustainability above all
[broken link removed]
like all businesses check the books!! you need sustainability above all
[broken link removed]
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