The insurance paid for the original procedure (bar the excess). The costs I have incurred since that were in the majority not paid to the veterinarian that carried out the procedure. That's why I'm unsure if it's covered or not.
Veterinarian Surgical Issue
- Thread starter Nutso
- Start date
Both vets are veterinary orthopaedic surgeons. I don't know if there is a "hierarchy" as such.
I like this answer. Medicine is not an exact science.
Be interesting to know did the 1st guy comment on the 2nd guys opinion.
I haven't spoken with the original surgeon (yet). The new surgeon has both pre and post op x-rays and the surgery should have taken the bone to a particular angle but went well over that measurement - so it seems more fact than opinion as such.
Having said that, I am in no way qualified to comment on how easy that may be to do in this particular case. I have every sympathy for the veterinarian, but it's hard to swallow the extra costs incurred to date and costs yet to come.
Having said that, I am in no way qualified to comment on how easy that may be to do in this particular case. I have every sympathy for the veterinarian, but it's hard to swallow the extra costs incurred to date and costs yet to come.
Hi @Nutso ,
Sorry to hear about all this unnecessary discomfort to your poor dog.
We had a somewhat similar situation with our poor elderly dog two years ago when he broke his cruciate ligament. He is quite small, if a little overweight, which does not help the recovery. He had the basic repair done, which I understand, is akin to an elastic band repair.
Within a week or two, when he returned for his check-up, we were told that the band had snapped and he would need a metal plate fitted. They confirmed straight away, that we would have to pay again, to have the new procedure done, and there was no question of a refund or credit. The original procedure was done in our vets, whereas the next one, was done by an orthopaedic veterinary surgeon, in another practice.
This was all 2021 when there were lots of serious health issues in the family, because of Covid and other matters, so we did not have the time or heart to pursue this side of things. I suppose the fact, that our insurance company paid their contribution, to both operations eased the burden. At the same time we did have to pay the excess and 35% of each claim because he is over 7.
Like you, I found it very upsetting for our dog to have to go through all this, especially at his age. I have heard since, that it is quite common for the lighter (band) procedure to fail, especially over time.
If I were in your situation I would confirm if my insurance company were definitely prepared to cover the second op. A lot of the practices have a veterinary nurse who looks after the claims for clients and should be able to check this out for you. The fact that the insurance company covered our situation twice leads me to believe that it is a common enough problem.
You could get advice from the insurance company, about this whole problem, because especially Allianz have both vets and veterinary nurses, on their staff. You may prefer not do this in case they change their mind on payment.
I also found, with our previous dog, that our premium increased, because of the number of claims. I would always advise everyone to, if at all possible, keep their pet insurance, especially when the pets get older, as this is the most important time to have it. Because of the 35% payment lots of people decide to drop the insurance.
Sorry to hear about all this unnecessary discomfort to your poor dog.
We had a somewhat similar situation with our poor elderly dog two years ago when he broke his cruciate ligament. He is quite small, if a little overweight, which does not help the recovery. He had the basic repair done, which I understand, is akin to an elastic band repair.
Within a week or two, when he returned for his check-up, we were told that the band had snapped and he would need a metal plate fitted. They confirmed straight away, that we would have to pay again, to have the new procedure done, and there was no question of a refund or credit. The original procedure was done in our vets, whereas the next one, was done by an orthopaedic veterinary surgeon, in another practice.
This was all 2021 when there were lots of serious health issues in the family, because of Covid and other matters, so we did not have the time or heart to pursue this side of things. I suppose the fact, that our insurance company paid their contribution, to both operations eased the burden. At the same time we did have to pay the excess and 35% of each claim because he is over 7.
Like you, I found it very upsetting for our dog to have to go through all this, especially at his age. I have heard since, that it is quite common for the lighter (band) procedure to fail, especially over time.
If I were in your situation I would confirm if my insurance company were definitely prepared to cover the second op. A lot of the practices have a veterinary nurse who looks after the claims for clients and should be able to check this out for you. The fact that the insurance company covered our situation twice leads me to believe that it is a common enough problem.
You could get advice from the insurance company, about this whole problem, because especially Allianz have both vets and veterinary nurses, on their staff. You may prefer not do this in case they change their mind on payment.
I also found, with our previous dog, that our premium increased, because of the number of claims. I would always advise everyone to, if at all possible, keep their pet insurance, especially when the pets get older, as this is the most important time to have it. Because of the 35% payment lots of people decide to drop the insurance.
Hi
I have a bit of knowledge here with working dogs.
OK so the first thing is that an awful lot of vets are really bad at their jobs so it does not surprise me in any way to hear of your first experience.
In this case I'd write formally to your first vet. I would not say x said y etc. Id say that there is an issue with the operation you paid for and that you got a second opinion. From that it seems that there are still recurring problems.
Then I'd ask them for their thoughts as to how to rectify this. I would state the cost of original operation, the outcome and the opinion of the second vet. One vet vs the other is not going to work as nearly all vets will have gone to UCD and everyone knows each other. In my last issue with my dog which was very specific my specialist was able to call 5 specialists all of whom he went to UCD with and all of whom knew each other. So its a tiny community.
If that vet does not engage then get a second written opinion and tell them that they will have to pay for this. If your second vet will give you this in writing then great. I would then ask them to refund your full costs so you are not out of pocket. if they don't or deny same then I would proceed to the veterinary body and make a complaint. If the vet in queston has a boss I'd put it in writing there also.
Bear in mind many practices are now owned by UK practices and are part of groups so they will be a bit more amenable to making sure you have satisfaction.
If you need a fantastic surgeon who really knows his stuff especially if its joint related I know a specialist. I am not sure of rules here on posting referrals or contact so lets see what @Brendan Burgess says.
I'm sorry you had to go through this.
Finally you might talk to your insurer to guage if they are OK with paying for a procedure that did not work as it was improperly done. They could talk to the vet. I do think you will get it resolved but be consistent and unemotive and stick to facts: the diagnosis was x, the solution was y, y proved to be not done properly so says vet No. 2 so what are you going to do to rectify this etc?
My first surgery was nearly 2000€ the last set was €1800 - all insured but still not great with excesses etc but I now have a definitive answer from the guy I went to who is excellent.
I have a bit of knowledge here with working dogs.
OK so the first thing is that an awful lot of vets are really bad at their jobs so it does not surprise me in any way to hear of your first experience.
In this case I'd write formally to your first vet. I would not say x said y etc. Id say that there is an issue with the operation you paid for and that you got a second opinion. From that it seems that there are still recurring problems.
Then I'd ask them for their thoughts as to how to rectify this. I would state the cost of original operation, the outcome and the opinion of the second vet. One vet vs the other is not going to work as nearly all vets will have gone to UCD and everyone knows each other. In my last issue with my dog which was very specific my specialist was able to call 5 specialists all of whom he went to UCD with and all of whom knew each other. So its a tiny community.
If that vet does not engage then get a second written opinion and tell them that they will have to pay for this. If your second vet will give you this in writing then great. I would then ask them to refund your full costs so you are not out of pocket. if they don't or deny same then I would proceed to the veterinary body and make a complaint. If the vet in queston has a boss I'd put it in writing there also.
Bear in mind many practices are now owned by UK practices and are part of groups so they will be a bit more amenable to making sure you have satisfaction.
If you need a fantastic surgeon who really knows his stuff especially if its joint related I know a specialist. I am not sure of rules here on posting referrals or contact so lets see what @Brendan Burgess says.
I'm sorry you had to go through this.
Finally you might talk to your insurer to guage if they are OK with paying for a procedure that did not work as it was improperly done. They could talk to the vet. I do think you will get it resolved but be consistent and unemotive and stick to facts: the diagnosis was x, the solution was y, y proved to be not done properly so says vet No. 2 so what are you going to do to rectify this etc?
My first surgery was nearly 2000€ the last set was €1800 - all insured but still not great with excesses etc but I now have a definitive answer from the guy I went to who is excellent.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 53,759
We don't allow medical recommendations but as it's a once off and as it's veterinary, fire ahead.
Having said that, they appear to have had two vets look at it already.
Brendan
Thanks @Brendan Burgess
The person I would recommend is Ciaran Jones. Probably the most experienced person Ive come across and highly regarded. Also a lovely guy to deal with.
www.myvet.ie
The person I would recommend is Ciaran Jones. Probably the most experienced person Ive come across and highly regarded. Also a lovely guy to deal with.
Ciarán
MyVet in Firhouse and Lucan in Dublin and MyVet in Maynooth in Kildare offer outstanding veterinary care to small animals.
Thanks Uprovers, I do plan to get preauthorisation from the insurance before proceeding but hopefully there should not be an problem with coverage. Definitely recommend insurance for all dogs, I took it out mainly in case he bit someone (he is more likely to kill with cuddles than bites 
), I wasn't expecting any surgery for him as he is a young dog.
ThisisMax, thanks for the recommendation. I am happy with the referral I've gotten, I believe they have some of the best veterinary surgeons in the country there, so I will most likely stick with them.
After thinking on it over the weekend, I am going to park it for the moment and concentrate on getting my little doggo sorted and hopefully back to a pain free and comfortable life.
), I wasn't expecting any surgery for him as he is a young dog.ThisisMax, thanks for the recommendation. I am happy with the referral I've gotten, I believe they have some of the best veterinary surgeons in the country there, so I will most likely stick with them.
After thinking on it over the weekend, I am going to park it for the moment and concentrate on getting my little doggo sorted and hopefully back to a pain free and comfortable life.
DirectDevil
Registered User
- Messages
- 903
A few thoughts.
Generally, vets owe a reasonable duty of care in the discharge of their work.
The standard of care is that to be reasonably expected of a competent vet professing their particular level of expertise.
The fact that there is an unsatisfactory outcome does not imply negligence.
BTW if you do sue the first vet and win the insurers who paid for that first surgery may be entitled to recover some of their outlay under the principle of subrogation.
Generally, vets owe a reasonable duty of care in the discharge of their work.
The standard of care is that to be reasonably expected of a competent vet professing their particular level of expertise.
The fact that there is an unsatisfactory outcome does not imply negligence.
BTW if you do sue the first vet and win the insurers who paid for that first surgery may be entitled to recover some of their outlay under the principle of subrogation.