dereko1969
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And what did Bus Éireann reply to you after you reported it to them?
Use of mobile phones whilst driving
- Thread starter Palerider
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And what did Bus Éireann reply to you after you reported it to them?
Strawman indeed, the forum is called letting off steam and as the OP I feel I can make that statement without you T McGibney being quite so condesending in your response which adds nothing to the thread.
T McGibney
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Its hardly condescending to point out that you attacked a viewpoint that nobody here had expressed?
Rubbish, My comment was clearly rhetorical, your reply was condesending, intended as such and added nothing to the thread, enough said.
T McGibney
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Enough said indeed.
SoylentGreen
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I could have put money on it that you would pass a comment like this. You seem to spend your time waiting in the long grass to pounce. Incidentally have you ever come on AAM to ask advice or do you know everything?
I agree.
I am in favour of the current law but I consider other things, such as eating while driving, just as dangerous.
dmos87, if the 18 year old man who hit you was eating or talking to the person beside him should those things be banned? What if he was looking at a billboard or eyeing up a scantily clad young-wan should looking those things be banned?
The point is that anything that distracts a driver is dangerous (phones, food, adverts etc.). Anything that impairs driver reaction time is dangerous (alcohol, fatigue, drugs) and anything that reduces the opportunity to react (speed, fog) is dangerous.
Being on a mobile phone is one of many things that drivers should not do. Let's stop pretending that it's a major issue. The reason it's banned is that it's easy to see.
Having your phone stuck to the side of your head while talking is one issue, taking your eyes off the road and your complete attention to read and reply to a text message is a whole other kettle of fish.
It just seems to me that some people on here, including yourself, do not see this as a major issue and are quick to disregard it, putting it in the same category as talking to a companion or looking at roadside advertising. While these are distracting, so is the act of looking at roadside directional signs for example.
FYI - Eating or not paying attention to the road ahead can be prosecuted by the following provisions -
Driver found to be driving carelessly
Driving without reasonable consideration
Where did I say texting while driving was ok?!
It would be a good idea to read posts before replying to them.
If you did then you'd realise that at no stage did I say that using your phone while driving (i.e. taking or making a phone call without a hands free kit) was ok or should be allowed. I didn't mention texting.
You said...
and
I am well able to read posts and always read in full. I am saying that using a mobile phone while driving is a major issue.
Ok, I'll ask you again so; where did I say that texting while driving was ok?
I said that being on the phone, i.e. talking on the phone, was one of many dangerous things that drivers do. All of them fall under "driving without due care and attention" so why is talking on the phone plucked out of the pile and giving it's own heading?
There's no evidence that having a phone conversation while holding a phone is more dangerous than using a hands-free device. It is the action of having a conversation with someone who isn't in the car that causes the danger.
Here's some evidence and general data.
I think the way the law is written (that the offence is holding a phone takes into account that the action of looking at phone to press buttons to make / receive calls, respond to texts, facebook etc.) is fine but the enforcement is the issue.
It would be difficult for anyone trying to uphold the law to differentiate between someone holding a phone making a call or someone holding a phone to answer a text as they normally observe them from a distance.
I do agree that there is an epidemic - I commute on a motorbike through Dublin City daily and would love to have an automatic ticket system to give out 2 points to every driver or cyclist I see using / on a phone.
In the last couple of months I have seen / experienced it all with regard to people pulling out, u-turns, switching lanes, rear-ending, breaking lights all due to mobile phone use. Most of these were just observed with a few requiring some evasive action. I also see the shaving, makeup, even saw one fella plucking ear hair !
The worse case did affect me directly but luckily no damage was done (except to the car passeneger door) - 3 lanes of busy moving traffic (approx 45 kph) - Artic lorry & 40 ft in left lane, me in middle, car to my right. Lots of traffic both in front and behind so nowhere to go. I was almost level with passenger window when the car switched lanes over on top of me pushing me onto the artic. I blew the horn (130 dB Airhorn), no response, couldn't brake as there was a car right behind, kicked door a couple of times - no response - it was only when I nearly broke the window with an armoured glove that the driver looked up from her phone - I could see she was on Facebook and she nearly took out another car when she swerved back into her own lane. All happened in about 5 seconds. I wasn't able to get a number plate but would have reported for dangerous driving if I had - another reason to get that GoPro.
It would be difficult for anyone trying to uphold the law to differentiate between someone holding a phone making a call or someone holding a phone to answer a text as they normally observe them from a distance.
I do agree that there is an epidemic - I commute on a motorbike through Dublin City daily and would love to have an automatic ticket system to give out 2 points to every driver or cyclist I see using / on a phone.
In the last couple of months I have seen / experienced it all with regard to people pulling out, u-turns, switching lanes, rear-ending, breaking lights all due to mobile phone use. Most of these were just observed with a few requiring some evasive action. I also see the shaving, makeup, even saw one fella plucking ear hair !
The worse case did affect me directly but luckily no damage was done (except to the car passeneger door) - 3 lanes of busy moving traffic (approx 45 kph) - Artic lorry & 40 ft in left lane, me in middle, car to my right. Lots of traffic both in front and behind so nowhere to go. I was almost level with passenger window when the car switched lanes over on top of me pushing me onto the artic. I blew the horn (130 dB Airhorn), no response, couldn't brake as there was a car right behind, kicked door a couple of times - no response - it was only when I nearly broke the window with an armoured glove that the driver looked up from her phone - I could see she was on Facebook and she nearly took out another car when she swerved back into her own lane. All happened in about 5 seconds. I wasn't able to get a number plate but would have reported for dangerous driving if I had - another reason to get that GoPro.
There is a simple answer to why certain issues are legislated for and others not, ease of enforcement.
Whatever the statistics (difficult enough as they are to get) indicate regarding, say, Fatigue vs Intoxicants as a factor in accidents, it is impossible to measure fatigue, it is possible to measure intoxication. just because we can't measure and enforce both, it is no reason why we don't introduce legislation to at least eliminate one factor.
Similarly, the RSA and the Gardai are more than aware of the various distractions that can have an impact on driver safety. Some are easier to enforce than others (some like eating, etc, can still be enforced through Road Safety Legislation), but talking on a mobile phone is more obvious and easier to enforce, so it was legislated for.
It's not saying its a greater risk than others, just it is an easier one to enforce and legislate for, so they did.
Whatever the statistics (difficult enough as they are to get) indicate regarding, say, Fatigue vs Intoxicants as a factor in accidents, it is impossible to measure fatigue, it is possible to measure intoxication. just because we can't measure and enforce both, it is no reason why we don't introduce legislation to at least eliminate one factor.
Similarly, the RSA and the Gardai are more than aware of the various distractions that can have an impact on driver safety. Some are easier to enforce than others (some like eating, etc, can still be enforced through Road Safety Legislation), but talking on a mobile phone is more obvious and easier to enforce, so it was legislated for.
It's not saying its a greater risk than others, just it is an easier one to enforce and legislate for, so they did.
The danger when that happens is that other offences are ignored and the offence that is being targeted is seen as a greater problem than it actually is. Since the evidence suggests that use of a hands free kit is just as dangerous as holding the phone in your hand (how many people drive with one hand anyway?) but using a hands free kit is legal, people think they are not increasing their chance of being in a crash when they are using one to make or take calls while driving. The law is increasing complacency amongst drivers. Why not ban the use of any mobile phone while driving? That's what some countries have done. That's what the evidence suggests should be done.
That's actually under discussion. At the time of the initial mobile phone ban they accepted that handsfree could be as distracting, but the research at the time had only really focussed on holding a phone in your hand. But I remember that the allowance of a handsfree kit was done so grudgingly.
Then there are the technical problems of how you define it and what would be an exemption. For example, you could say mobile phone's are banned, but I can get an iPad with 3G access and make calls via an app, not a phone at all. So you would have to define it to capture everything, which would then include radios for emergency services, buses and haulage.
As to evidence indicating one way or the other which is a greater risk, we're not in a position to state either way. Some studies have indicated the same risk of having a normal conversation as one on a phone, others show much greater risk from the phone alone. We've yet to reach a scientifc agreement on this issue and so advocates of either side can pick and choose which study they prefer the findings of.
The issue of practicality has to come into though. How do you know someone is talking via handsfree and not just talking to themselves outloud, or signing to a song, or swearing at another idiotic radio phone-in? How do you enforce that? How do you enforce, in the event of it showing an equal risk, conversing with a passenger or telling a kid in the back to shut up or 'no, we're not playing that damned Thomas and Friends cd again.'? Impossible.
We can show there is a risk to talking while holding a phone, we can see it, we can enforce it, so we target that one as it's much more clear-cut and practical.
Some aspects of what presents a risk while driving (like say fatigue) will always have to be left to the driver, those that can be demonstrated to be a risk (and using the phone has, the debate is over what the risk is also equal to) and can be enforced will be.
One for Purple:
http://www.thejournal.ie/children-1...e-car-than-your-mobile-phone-1139596-Oct2013/
I can attest to this being true, especially if I'm texting them while they're sat in the back.
http://www.thejournal.ie/children-1...e-car-than-your-mobile-phone-1139596-Oct2013/
I can attest to this being true, especially if I'm texting them while they're sat in the back.
So making a phone call to distract yourself from the screaming kids in the back of the car may in fact make you a safer driver!
So making a phone call to distract yourself from the screaming kids in the back of the car may in fact make you a safer driver!
Not mentioned in the article, so cannot confirm, but your logic seems fine to me. I also presume recording the screaming kid to post onto facebook while driving is also safe.