US Presidential Election 2024

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Purple said:
His pro-cyclical economic policies which pumped vast amounts of borrowed money into the economy through a Federal infrastructure which is and was always incapable of delivering it to where it needed to go. The most socialist act by any President in the last 30 years was during Covid when Trump sent a cheque to every household in America. Rich socialists would rail against such a thing in case rich people get some of that money. Instead they should be worried about poor people getting their proportion of the money.

The old truism hold; well heeled intellectual socialists don't care about the poor, they just hate rich people.
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Not clear on that point. How is one pro-cyclical and the other 'socialist', implicitly the latter must be pro-cyclical also.
Wasn't Trump also pro-cyclical in his policies as President?

Under Biden, to take one example, the wages for the lowest 10% of earners increased faster than under any recent President.
There were measures eg on prescription drugs prices.

Do you have an answer to:
I haven't heard a credible coherent \ expert case as to why Trump's economic plans will benefit average Americans more than a continuation of Biden\Harris broad approach. I'm not saying the Democrat approach was perfect, but it was more responsible and had more chance of helping most Americans than the economic fantasies peddled by Trump.
 
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Obama's original reaction to Biden's dropping out was to have a responsible discussion within the DP to pick a new candidate rather than lazily go for the VP. He was probably right.
@joe sod IMHO there is no way Russia can be significantly pushed back from his current position in east Ukraine. This is an excellent chance for the West to face that reality without being seen to have been humiliatingly defeated. We are also seeing a big contrast between Putin and Netanyahu, the assault on the Ukrainian civilian population and infrastructure was hugely less than Russia were capable of. We saw the BRIC conference hosted by Russia which involves half the World's population and they don't seem to think Putin as Hitler incarnate. If Trump can dilute the growing Chino-Russian detente that would be a good thing.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
We saw the BRIC conference hosted by Russia which involves half the World's population and they don't seem to think Putin as Hitler incarnate. If Trump can dilute the growing Chino-Russian detente that would be a good thing.
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Most of the rest of the world don't care, just as most of the world didn't care when America invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a much stronger care for Russia's war in Ukraine, flimsy as it is, than there was for the invasion of Iraq. The death toll and the consequences for the respective regions will also be significantly lower in Ukraine.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Obama's original reaction to Biden's dropping out was to have a responsible discussion within the DP to pick a new candidate rather than lazily go for the VP. He was probably right.
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The selection of Biden in the first place, let alone Harris, is an indictment of the Democratic Party and the self absorbed clowns that run it.
 
odyssey06 said:
Do you have an answer to:
I haven't heard a credible coherent \ expert case as to why Trump's economic plans will benefit average Americans more than a continuation of Biden\Harris broad approach. I'm not saying the Democrat approach was perfect, but it was more responsible and had more chance of helping most Americans than the economic fantasies peddled by Trump.
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The point is that the Democrats are meant to be on the side of average working people but they are on the side of a status quo which is deeply inefficient and bureaucratic which causes needless and frustrating suffering to average people. The rich elites who defend that status quo can use their wealth to circumvent the problems their ideology causes.

I can never understand why fans of big government and more State provision of services aren't also ruthless about the efficiency, quality and value in all aspects of what the State does. Instead they echo the same nonsense trotted out by the people who are involved in the waste about lack of resources etc. That is the swamp that Trump talks about draining.

Trump is a symptom of a failure of the Centre, just like every other populist on the right and on the left.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
IMHO there is no way Russia can be significantly pushed back from his current position in east Ukraine. This is an excellent chance for the West to face that reality without being seen to have been humiliatingly defeated.
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Completely disagree with that, the reason why russia is in the position its in is because the US and Europe did not support ukraine to the hilt like they should have done. The republicans stopping aid to ukraine for 7 months was critical to russian relative success this year. Therefore the issue is that the west has not been prepared to properly push back against putin and show its strength.
As for the "brics" I wouldn't place too much importance on their opinion given that many are led by left wing, right wing and religious bandits and ultimately don't care about ukraine. Therefore given that ukraine is crucial for european security the opinion of the "brics" is irrelevant because they are being disingenuous regarding ukraine war
 
Yes, I think the above (from Purple) is absolutely true and the proof is there for all to see. Also the woke thing, identity politics and the pro-noun nonsense is bigger than most will admit.

These harsh words from a Democrat strategist will hurt those elites pulling the strings but she's absolutely right on most counts (though she lays little blame on Biden or Harris.)

www.youtube.com

Democratic strategist issues ‘hard truth’ to party members after losing election

Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky criticizes the finger-pointing within the Democratic Party, saying President Biden is not to blame. She also explains wh...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
Purple said:
The point is that the Democrats are meant to be on the side of average working people but they are on the side of a status quo which is deeply inefficient and bureaucratic which causes needless and frustrating suffering to average people. The rich elites who defend that status quo can use their wealth to circumvent the problems their ideology causes.

I can never understand why fans of big government and more State provision of services aren't also ruthless about the efficiency, quality and value in all aspects of what the State does. Instead they echo the same nonsense trotted out by the people who are involved in the waste about lack of resources etc. That is the swamp that Trump talks about draining.

Trump is a symptom of a failure of the Centre, just like every other populist on the right and on the left.
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I'm not fully convinced about that point. I think the Democrats are compromised to some extent (at a macro policy level) but are a broad coalition that does include those who genuinely push and deliver real measures to help average working people (on a micro level).

I agree about the waste \ efficiency in terms of public services.

But let's not pretend the fairy tales Trump is promising have any credible way of helping the average working people, all the evidence suggests the opposite. Of all the populists he is as involved in the rich elite as any. He has no interest in draining any swamp except into his own pockets and those of his stooges and hanger ons. We see the likes of Musk lining up beside him to look for government subsidies and loosening of regulations for his dodgy schemes.
 
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joe sod said:
Completely disagree with that, the reason why russia is in the position its in is because the US and Europe did not support ukraine to the hilt like they should have done. The republicans stopping aid to ukraine for 7 months was critical to russian relative success this year. Therefore the issue is that the west has not been prepared to properly push back against putin and show its strength.
As for the "brics" I wouldn't place too much importance on their opinion given that many are led by left wing, right wing and religious bandits and ultimately don't care about ukraine. Therefore given that ukraine is crucial for european security the opinion of the "brics" is irrelevant because they are being disingenuous regarding ukraine war
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That may well be a correct analysis. But we are where we are and it is sinking in that the West simply no longer has the libido to reverse Russian advances in any significant way. It is best all round to call it a day and Trump gives the opportunity to at least make the argument that it is America that are calling the shots and that Putin has not given a humiliation to America. It also shows Europe that America are calling the shots. In simple terms MAGA.
As for BRICS, India, as the World's largest democracy, has more people than the US and Europe put together and Brazil's democracy more than twice as large as any in Europe. Yes, they don't see Ukraine as a major issue but maybe they see Russia having at least as much legitimacy in getting involved there as the US had in Iraq.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
But we are where we are and it is sinking in that the West simply no longer has the libido to reverse Russian advances in any significant way.
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It's an embarrassing disgrace the we in Europe cannot defend ourselves against Russia without being so dependent on the US. We have circa 500m people and an economy 10 times the size of Russia. Mark Rutte (new head of NATO) was being interviewed yesterday and said more and more NATO countries are now spending 2% of their GDP on defense. We have no idea where that's being spent though - show us the munitions, show us the tanks, show us the subs etc etc. It's pretty clear to me that as time goes on, the US will focus more & more on China. That leaves us more vulnerable. I appreciate that we have other, large problems coming down the tracks like climate change, but I would be in favour of military spending of at least 5% per annum for the next 10 years to make sure that border with Russia is so well protected that it would be absolute maddness for them to even think of it. I am thinking something like the way the Himalayas prevent India and China from going to war. On this point, I think Trump is right.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
As for BRICS, India, as the World's largest democracy, has more people than the US and Europe put together and Brazil's democracy is larger than any in Europe
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Yes and compared to Russia they are even more significant both economically and by population so why are they kow towing to Russia, afterall Europe and America are alot more important to both India and Brazil than Russia is. I mean Russia isn't even in the top 10 economies in the world now and its population is less than 140 million yet most of the brics saw fit to travel to Kazan to give legitimacy to Putin, Why?
 
joe sod said:
Yes and compared to Russia they are even more significant both economically and by population so why are they kow towing to Russia, afterall Europe and America are alot more important to both India and Brazil than Russia is. I mean Russia isn't even in the top 10 economies in the world now and its population is less than 140 million yet most of the brics saw fit to travel to Kazan to give legitimacy to Putin, Why?
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Oil
 
Purple said:
Oil
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Sure India is getting its oil at below market price from Russia because Russia is now a forced seller, even if India snubbed Russia it would still be getting cheap oil. Brazil is a huge oil exporter itself ,its actually in Brazil's interests to isolate Russia further. They both don't need Russia at all ,so the question still has not been answered, why are they going out of their way to legitimise Russia and putin?
 
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Well, I got that completely wrong!

I was surprised at the strength of Trump’s vote. He gained ground with all voter groups and also won the popular vote.

It’s a strange thing that the US economy is as good as it is possible for it to be, a further interest rate cut, violent crime and immigration down, yet Trump managed to convince the voting majority that the US was down the toilet.

It’s like collective neurosis.

I see that the Democrats are already blame gaming and conclusion jumping. Opinions on what went wrong appears to be whatever you’re having yourself.

Republicans have the Senate and likely the House majority, so Trump has enough rope.

What happens next will be remarkably interesting.
 
joe sod said:
Sure India is getting its oil at below market price from Russia because Russia is now a forced seller, even if India snubbed Russia it would still be getting cheap oil. Brazil is a huge oil exporter itself ,its actually in Brazil's interests to isolate Russia further. They both don't need Russia at all ,so the question still has not been answered, why are they going out of their way to legitimise Russia and putin?
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I don't think it is about Putin, he's just a facilitator.

It's more about imports/exports and China.
 
Sophrosyne said:
I don't think it is about Putin, he's just a facilitator.

It's more about imports/exports and China.
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I India and China don't get on at all they are adversaries. I think they are facilitating putin because there is no cost for them and this is a mistake. Surely the west should come down much harder on these countries for legitimising putin. They know that western markets and technology are not going to be denied even if they cozy up to putin. Turkey and Azerbaijan etc were facilitating putin getting access to western technology and bypassing sanctions and they merely got a gentle rebuke rather than getting their fingers properly wrapped. It's all a bit academic now anyway as trump is back in the white house again
 
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