UN Hearings - Salisbury nerve agent attack

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https://www.rt.com/news/437671-russia-uk-skripals-suspects/

Moscow - names published in UK mean nothing to us as of now.

Requests London to abondon "public accusations and media manipulations" and "engage in practical cooperation between law enforcement agencies".

Are they saying that the UK has not made any contact with Russia through diplomatic channels first, but instead is trying to investigate this issue through public airwaves?
 
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Firefly said:
We were right to say in March that the Russian State was responsible.
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They were wrong to say Russia was responsible if they did not have the identity of who carried out the attack. Totally and utterly wrong.

Firefly said:
And now we have identified the individuals involved, we can go even further.
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See, if the identity of the individuals turned out to be, say anti-Russian Ukranians, the Brits would look like total idiots today.


The Government concluding that the two individuals named by the police (as possible aliases!) are officers of GRU and then announcing it to the world is a farcical way to carry out its own intelligence activities.

Firefly said:
The GRU is a highly disciplined organisation with a well-established chain of command.So this was not a rogue operation. It was almost certainly also approved outside the GRU at a senior level
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Is the GRU the same organization that once had a Sergei Skirpal on its books, who subsequently acted as a double agent for UK intelligence?
If so, is it possible these guys were double agents acting for UK intelligence?
 
Firefly said:
The Russian Times?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)#Propaganda_claims_and_related_issues

It's like something from 1984
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Yeah, everyone knows what RT is, but so far they are the only ones carrying a Russian response from Moscow.
When Sky or BBC post the Russia response I can link that too.

But in the meantime, the whole UK position is becoming increasingly embarrassing in the manner they are going about this.
To 'conclude' anything on the basis of a notion that it was 'almost certainly' Russia is amateurish at best.
That they would continue this investigation in such public form, without it appears, any diplomatic channels open with the Russians is bizarre.
To admit that the named persons are most likely aliases and then confirm that the 'named individuals' are agents of GRU is sheer incompetence.
And the irony that UK intelligence services once had a GRU agent on their books (Skirpal) is beyond fiction.

Nevermind the BBC, Sky, Sun etc will toe in line and bleat out the message for the measses as has been delivered.

Big Brother indeed.
 
[broken link removed]

Sky news is reporting (I hope this a satisfactory news agency to link to?) that a Russian diplomat has been summoned in London by UK.

- but I thought British intelligence knew last May it was the Russians? Didn't they expel a number of diplomats at the time?
What has come out of today that this guy is to be 'hauled in' today?
 
UN Security Council hearings taking place on the Salisbury poisoning affair.
Nothing unusual, US, UK, Fra and other European allies lining up one side to accuse Russia. China, Kazakhstan remaining neutral, appealing all sides to assist investigation through diplomatic channels.
Russia, unsurprisingly denying any involvement and basically ridiculing the 'evidence' as presented by UK.

On the face of it, I have to say I think the Russians have a real case to be peeved.
The evidence as presented by UK is extremely shallow and open to all sorts of questions.
The Russians for instance, have publicly requested the UK embassy to provide the finger prints of the two suspects. These would have been obtained when a visa to travel to UK was applied for. Apparently the UK ambassador to Russia has refused to provide the finger prints.
 
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1LM365?__twitter_impression=true

According to this report the US has 'seen evidence' that Syria is preparing a chemical attack.
Apparently the US is 'very sure' and that they have very, very good grounds to believe this to be true - so nothing conclusive then.

My theory that the Syrians, who are winning the war and just one major front left to take in Idlib, would not use CW is such circumstances appears not to hold.
I cant get my head around it, why on earth would they even consider it?
Unless of course it is nothing more than propaganda by US, paving the way for more direct military intervention?
 
Firefly said:
Maybe because

"The FFM’s mandate is to determine whether chemical weapons or toxic chemicals as weapons have been used in Syria; it does not include identifying who is responsible for alleged attacks."

(first sentence, second paragraph):
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Fair point.
It was the JIM (Joint Investigative Mechanism) which attributed blame to Syria.
Both Syria and Russia dispute those findings, labelling the JIM as biased. Notably, JIM never went to the area of the CW attack.

Im not saying that Syria was not responsible, simply noting that it is disputed as to who is responsible.
 
So the 2 Russians identified by the Brits as the culprits and members of the Russian intelligence service have been acknowledged by Putin as Russian citizens who they say are ordinary civilians. But don't worry, they have a cover story for their movements

Russians accused by UK in spy case say 'they were in Salisbury for tourism'
  • 'We're victims of a fantastical coincidence' - say duo
https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...y-were-in-salisbury-for-tourism-37312439.html

What say you now BigShort?
 


Yes, intriguing stuff altogether. The notion that these guys were simply tourists and that all of this is coincidental certainly stretches the realms of credibility.
So I think it is reasonably safe to say that these two guys are Russians, that they were not actually travelling under aliases as reported, and that they have confirmed that is was indeed them in Salisbury at the same time as the Skripal attack.

However, the Irish Independent is reporting from transcripts of an interview published by Russia Today (so lest there be any doubt, we either accept the Russia Today transcripts as factual and truthful, or its all Russian propaganda - im tending to go with former, although I am aware some here dismiss RT as nothing more than propaganda).

I would therefore recommend reading the full published RT transcript.

https://www.rt.com/news/438356-rt-petrov-boshirov-full-interview/
 
I'm sure if there's any mis-reporting in the West about tourists, admissions to it being them that was there etc that the Kremlin would be out shouting by now.

Looks like a few Kremlin apologists may have egg on their faces over this one, wha?
 

That transcript made me laugh. If someone hadn't died and people severely hurt, I would find the whole thing hilarious. Two guys decide on a whim to fly to London because they really wanted to see Salisbury (Really popular in Russia even though I reckon majority of Irish people have never heard of it). They arrive and go to train station to see where they can go. They go to Salisbury and walk around for 40 minutes but go back to train station because of snow, have a coffee and return to London. You can imagine the heartache. So on day two of their three day trip, they decide to repeat the exercise again. It really is an amazing Cathedral (Russia doesn't have any old buildings you know). Unfortunately, the same thing happened again. So they left at lunchtime, back to London and the first flight back to Moscow. But the good news is that they took lots of pictures so they can prove they were tourists.

It is just like the shooting down of MH17 again......Not us. We are nice nation. We hosted World Cup and everyone had big laugh.
 
Not exactly sure what you are implying @Delboy. A few things stand out, either we believe the transcript in the interview from RT, in which case these men are pleading their innocence (albeit with a lot of questions surrounding their activities to be answered) or it all just part of the Russian propaganda machine that sent two agents, together, to poison a former spy using their actual real names, and travel with the poison in person.
Not only that, apparently traces of Novichok were found in the hotel where they stayed - the stuff was leaking!
They then re-packaged the Novichok (according to Rowley who said he found it in a sealed box) only to discard it recklessly.

So once identified as two suspects, the Russians have wheeled them out to concoct this story? The story is not very convincing, why would the Russians wheel them out to parrot this stuff? The Brits are still keeping the Skripals under lock and key, bar a brief video from Yulia.

We are a long way from the truth here.
 

On the face of it I would agree.
But we are dealing with intelligence agencies here, apparently. And as farcical as their story sounds, equally to my mind, its farcical that...what did Teresa May say?.....oh yeah, the highly trained and disciplined GRU (or something to that effect) would send its assassins to the UK for a weekend extermination using a highly dangerous substance, that they brought with them, re-sealed, and then discarded recklessly.

I'm willing to be proven wrong on all of this, but my skepticism was heightened further after I watched 'The Ballymurphy Massacare' last week. It reminded me of how UK intelligence agencies have operated to subvert the course of justice for citizens in this country. Hanging a couple of Russians out to dry would be childs play.
 
Thanks for the sentiment Delboy, but I can assure you I am no apologist for Putin or the Kremlin.
I am a however a skeptic when it comes to political and financial affairs. I dont afford much value to the mouthpieces that propagate their agendas without considering the ulterior motives.

Teresa May, in HoC decscribed this attempted assassination as being only capable by Russia, only they had the technical means, the operational experience. That the GRU are highly disciplined and this operation could only have been approved by a high authority in the Kremlin.
She is trying to make it out to be an operation of high sophistication and precision.
Knowing what we now know, does TM words relate to these two guys on a weekend return flight from Moscow travelling by public transport and window shopping?

This popped up on my Twitter feed, an article about Salisbury tourism from 2014.

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/11432400.International_visitors_flock_to_Salisbury/


"We’re delighted our efforts at targeting key international markets, for example hosting 100 key international press and travel trade representatives from markets including France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Australia, China, Russia, Canada and USA, are already paying off."
 
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