Ulster Bank's proposal to deal with offset mortgages

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legolfer said:
Has anyone sought and obtained any tax advice on the gwp from UB?
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That's a couple of times that question has recently been asked with no response.

I guess no one has got anything concrete. Nothing back from revenue anyway.
 
I'm a PAYE tax payer...I received this from revenue ..........

With regard to the ex-gratia payment from Ulster bank, we would need more information in order to answer your query. Is this amount that you expect to receive a payment or a refund?

Can you please get a letter form the bank detailing what the payment relates to and you can upload a screenshot of the letter through My Enquiries so that we can review it for you.
 
aidanc68 said:
I'm a PAYE tax payer...I received this from revenue ..........

With regard to the ex-gratia payment from Ulster bank, we would need more information in order to answer your query. Is this amount that you expect to receive a payment or a refund?

Can you please get a letter form the bank detailing what the payment relates to and you can upload a screenshot of the letter through My Enquiries so that we can review it for you.
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I’m guessing this is a response to a query that you initiated with them?

I’m personally not going to worry about this until revenue come out with a position on this (If they even do at all). They are fully aware of this development without me going to them.
 
Just got a letter from Ulster Bank notifying us that there are just 2 months left to close any accounts and transfer balances elsewhere.

Looks like we’re nearing the end of this particular tale, but I’m curious if anybody has gone down the route of challenging this through the ombudsman or some other means? I haven’t seen much of that talk online anywhere so I think Ulster Bank have played this quite well so far.
 
Hey guys this was mentioned in two dail questions in December and minister for finance answered. Bit of a wishy washy answer to be honest.

I've contacted the central bank this week via email asking 1. If they are aware of what Ulster bank are doing and 2. If they approved of what they are doing.

I wrote an official complaint to UB in early December about this and received a response end of Feb . If I'm allowed to post their response here I will. I will also post my response if allowed.

And finally yes. I will go to the ombudsman after I receive a final response . Half thinking about contacting Joe Duffy!

Contacting all my local TDs as well. With the fact that the government gave us tax credits to help with rising interest rates and now UB are taking away our ability to save interest and if the government were to give more tax credits in future then it will cost the taxpayer more. Also if the Irish government still have large stakeholdings in Irish banks can they not force one of those banks to take on those mortgages?
 
Doni666 said:
Hey guys this was mentioned in two dail questions in December and minister for finance answered. Bit of a wishy washy answer to be honest.

I've contacted the central bank this week via email asking 1. If they are aware of what Ulster bank are doing and 2. If they approved of what they are doing.

I wrote an official complaint to UB in early December about this and received a response end of Feb . If I'm allowed to post their response here I will. I will also post my response if allowed.

And finally yes. I will go to the ombudsman after I receive a final response . Half thinking about contacting Joe Duffy!

Contacting all my local TDs as well. With the fact that the government gave us tax credits to help with rising interest rates and now UB are taking away our ability to save interest and if the government were to give more tax credits in future then it will cost the taxpayer more. Also if the Irish government still have large stakeholdings in Irish banks can they not force one of those banks to take on those mortgages?
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The very fact that you are talking about going to the ombudsman, your local TDS and Joe Duffy I’m guessing you didn’t get a response you were happy with!

Regarding your last paragraph, I’m not sure if I’m understanding you fully, are you concerned they are going to be sold to a foreign bank or a vulture fund or something? I think they have to stay in the country, don’t think they can be sold to a party outside of the jurisdiction, and there’s a good chance that the likes of AIB or PTSB will buy them.
 
Dear God don't try Joe Duffy, there is no way he will even begin to understand how an offset mortgage works if his grasp of finance on other issues is anything to go by!

Trouble is with this I'd say most people are very happy with the way it went, I have one as have 2 family members and a couple of friends, everyone of them delighted with the way it's gone. Now in fairness all of us were in the later years of our mortgage with good use of offsetting over the years and assuming the 'pay and redraw' system works to continue on offsetting albeit with restrictions and not as conveniently we are all substantially better off.
 
Hey aoraki, sorry I should have expanded. I got the response I expected to be fair. Ulster replied that they tried to find a solution for this mortgage with a full service Irish bank but were unable. My point about talking to TDs was to try get political influence to force an Irish bank to buy these mortgages as is. Buy them as existing offset flexible mortgages

The full response from Ulster in my humble opinion has lots of scope for breach of contract if I'm allowed to post it?

Montbretia,

Happy or not would you not try to squeeze them for more?

I believe you about Joe Duffy !! Still it's airtime.

There's one line on the offset contract that says:

We [the bank ] may only close your offsetting arrangement when the loan becomes repayable or when this mortgage is no longer available and we need to move you to a different product.


Ulster bank don't have any other products available to move me to hence I believe their actions to be a breach of contract.
 
Doni666 said:
Happy or not would you not try to squeeze them for more?
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No I wouldn't and I can assure you I have no love for UB!

As for trying to force another bank to take them in their full working order it's not going to happen, another lender would have to set up the IT system or buy it to operate them as there is nothing currently with any of the banks systems operating that way. It's simply not going to make viable financial sense to develop a new system to deal with a small number of mortgages that if used correctly by the customers the bank will make very little money out of.

If by some longshot a bank did set up the IT needed they would probably have to levy serious charges on the current account side of it to make it in any way profitable, either way they are not going to bother and I don't think the government can insist on them doing it either. On top of that I would say the actual numbers of unhappy offset people is very small which makes it even less likely. The only way Joe Duffy would be of benefit was if it generated hundreds of calls from unhappy customers, switchboard jammed and days of discussion sort of thing, not going to happen, be forgotten after day one.
 
Actually Montbretia,

Some anecdotal evidence. UB guy rang last week to see if I had alternative arrangements set up yet before the closing of account ts in May. Told me they were inundated with complaints regarding offset mortgages.

UB were able to set up IT systems to manage these mortgages. UB didn't sell these mortgages ever if I remember correctly. They were only ever offered by First Active.

It was already raised in the dail by two different TDs so there are unhappy customers out there. Re Joe Duffy that's the plan and to be fair there's only one way to find out!
 
Doni666 said:
Actually Montbretia,

Some anecdotal evidence. UB guy rang last week to see if I had alternative arrangements set up yet before the closing of account ts in May. Told me they were inundated with complaints regarding offset mortgages.

UB were able to set up IT systems to manage these mortgages. UB didn't sell these mortgages ever if I remember correctly. They were only ever offered by First Active.

It was already raised in the dail by two different TDs so there are unhappy customers out there. Re Joe Duffy that's the plan and to be fair there's only one way to find out!
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Ulster Bank didn’t need to create new IT systems for those mortgages because they took over First Active, which would have included the IT systems.
 
Doni666 said:
UB were able to set up IT systems to manage these mortgages. UB didn't sell these mortgages ever if I remember correctly. They were only ever offered by First Active.
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UB didnt have to set up a new system for them, when RBS acquired/took over/bought, out whatever the term First Active the systems changed anyway and FA & UB were operating the same mortgage systems so they already had access to offset when FA were totally amalgamated with UB.

FA bought that original softwear/system or whatever the technical term for it is from Australia.

As for being inundated with complaints, there are only around 4,000 plus give or take offset customers and I wonder what percentage are exercised enough to actually complain, nobody that I know with an offset is happy that they are gone as such and would prefer they had continued but if it came to it I doubt they would actually hand back the payout in exchange for it continuing, I certainly wouldn't. That said of course I only happen to know customers who were a long way into their mortgage, as the last ones were processed in 2008 and if it was a 40 yr term then those are not completing for another 24 yrs so would obviously be at greater loss of the offsetting savings, however of course there is the pay and redraw which should work reasonably well to accomplish similar savings.

It's also quite astonishing how many people made no proper use of their offset perks and didn't even seem to know how the mortgage worked so I think once you filter out the different variations I still don't believe there is enough left to make it worthwhile for any lender to go out of their way to facilitate these.
 
UB made a decision and offered us an ex gratia goodwill payment which we had to accept. They also stated this didn't affect our right to complain.

I'm not saying that any of us should have to repay this payment as it's not compensation but a goodwill gesture .

What I am saying is that if you read the FA contract it does state that as long as you have an offset mortgage you must have an offset arrangement.

I do believe there are very serious grounds for any offset customer to hold UB to a breach of contract and if we could retain the status quo with our offset and keep the goodwill gesture and have the best of both worlds. For example in UBs response letter to my complaint they basically reiterate their ability to close the offset using the same clauses in the contract as they quote on their website. One that they quote is :

Section A - 8 (d)(1) From time to time, we [the bank] may decide in our absolute discretion that a particular product or account is no longer eligible for inclusion in an offset arrangement.”

My response to this is :

This clause allows you [the bank] the discretion to remove a particular product or account. Singular. Not to completely close and end in totality my offset flexible arrangement. Also in the Unfair Terms in contracts a term that is always considered unfair is “ A term that gives business the exclusive right to decide that goods/services conform to the contract.
 
You also have the people who used the home mover feature, pushed my term out to 2045. And in fairness interest rates where so low for so long that you would of been better off with any spare money working somewhere else. I think the speed of interest rates rises would of caught a few out. Another couple of years n many more would of used the offset to a greater extent.
 
Keninf said:
You also have the people who used the home mover feature, pushed my term out to 2045. And in fairness interest rates where so low for so long that you would of been better off with any spare money working somewhere else. I think the speed of interest rates rises would of caught a few out. Another couple of years n many more would of used the offset to a greater extent.
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Absolutely totally agree with this comment! Money better spent paying off other higher interest debt credit cards, personal loans car loans etc as opposed to offsetting when rates are so low.
One thing I'm annoyed about is the calculation of the goodwill gesture based on 0% interest.
 
I don't understand. It seems by be based on 4% and then doubled. Going by the working examples they gave n any actual payments I've seen.... 4% of the value you had in offset
 
Keninf said:
I don't understand. It seems by be based on 4% and then doubled. Going by the working examples they gave n any actual payments I've seen.... 4% of the value you had in offset
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I thought it was based on how much you had saved by offsetting either over the previous 6 years or something and then doubled to allow for future offsetting.
 
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