Ulster Bank Made Mistake with TRS. Increasing repayments on our tracker

44brendan said:
As per Elcato's post there appeqars to be more to this than a TRS adjustment!!
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Unstacked ,

1. I presume you were not in arrears.

Write (keep copy) and ask for full breakdown of TRS computations.
You will then be able to decipher how the figures were arrived at.
Ask/Tell Ulster to please leave your payments as is, until you have clarity over their administration error, and request them to please ensure your credit rating ICB, is kept clean.

I would think that at worse they should stretch your term, if new payments are too severe.
Ulster seem to be in a mess.
 
Elcato & 44Brendan,

Last week - UB said it was an TRS error
This week - UB said it was as a result of the capitalisation

And no they did not issue a Variation Agreement
 
44Brendan and Elcato
Last week the explanation was a 'TRS error' and this week 'it is because of re - capitalisation'
( we did capitalise our arrears in Dec 13)

And no - they did not issue a Variation Agreement
 
OK - So you started in Dec 2013 on a re-capitisation regime. You didn't mention that in the original post. So they miscalculated the first 6 months and now it appears the true cost is an extra 120 per month. Are you saying you would not have agreed to this in Dec 13 if you were told that it was that much each month ? If you cannot afford that then you would need to ask the bank to stretch the mortgage term a bit longer. Bear in mind though that this will cost more on interest in the long term.

Actually, my apologies unstacked. I have only seen your later post now i.e.
Phoned UB Mortgage Operations last week and they said they would look into it properly and reply to us. Received letter from UB today that says " Please note I have checked this payment and it is correct at €1243.47. Please note that in December the arrears amunt was capitalised and added to the balance. In this case, your repayment must increase in order to have the entire balance repaid within the term outstanding" etc etc
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did you get a letter with the following.
amounts may differ

The letter states that an error was identified with the application of the TRS on the mortgage
and impacts me two ways


Impact 1- TRS paid by the bank in march was €300 more than the usual entitlement of €10 resulting in the mortgage been underpaid. To correct this they wish to add €48 a month till Dec.

Impact 2- they Also regret that since I was provided with too much TRS I have exceeded my yearly TRS entitlement and I now have to repay them a further €240.00 either directly in full or it can be added over the life of the mortgage.
 
as for capitalisation the following still will apply

lets say in december you have a mortgage of 100,000
and an arrears balance on top of this for the sum of 30,000.
before december your mortgage repayments were based on a balance of 100,000
after december your mortgage repayments were based on a balance of 130,000
 
No not similar at all Rameire.
Just a short letter stating the increase to have the mortgage paid within the term outstanding of 31 years and 3 mths.

Funny though how during the course of this thread my memory is getting better. Really need to start writing things down and sending letters instead of phone conversations with banks.

Anyway, when speaking with UB in Dec 13 re- the re-capitalisation. I remember they gave us two choices either to have the arrears amount added on to the end of the mortgage and the term extended to keep the payments low OR leave the term as it is and pay more each month.

I have just found our annual mortgage statement as at 16th Dec 13 which states that the term remaining was 28yrs and 1month

We agreed ( on the phone ) to keep our payments low and extend the mortgage

But in their letter of the 27th June 14 it says that the monthly amount is to increase in order to have the entire balance repaid within the term outstanding which is 31years and 3 months

Surely this is a contradiction - they cant go to get the money off us twice
 
The only thing I can think of is that they did a combination of both due to the fact that you or your partner may be 70 (or 65) in 31 years and that will be the max term they allow. Either way you need to send a letter stating exactly what happened in the re-capitalisation process. You must have some written confirmation of the new arrangement ? If when you get this then use the mortgage calculator to see what you should be paying.
 
This makes no sense from a loan contract perspective. From your post Unstacked it would seem that an arrears position arose some time ago. In Dec 13 you were given choices by UB which involved the capitlisation of those arrears. You agreed by telephone to the capitalisation of the arrears and an extension of the mortgage term.
It would appear that no changes were implemented by UB up to June 14. You then received correspondence stating that the monthly payment would increase in order to clear the mortgage within the original timeframe. i.e. 6 months passed where nothing changed on the mortgage payment. You have no offer in writing to extend the term of the mortgage.
There is no suggestion in any of this that the Bank are proposing to "get money off you twice". There is no suggestion in the letter of 27th June from UB of any error in the TRS charge. Your argue ment appears to be that the Bank are not now giving you the option of extending the mortgage term. Is this the main issue? If so, have you reverted to the Bank to refer to your previous telephone discussion with them and ask why you have not now been given this choice?
 
44brendan - "Your argue ment appears to be that the Bank are not now giving you the option of extending the mortgage term"

Yes this is it. In Dec 13, we agreed to extend the term and the payments would stay affordable. This is what we thought we had signed up to.
We did sign an agreement for this.

So them coming now to ask for extra € per month is not right in my head as we had already agreed how to deal with the capitalisation of the arrears in Dec...

I phoned again this morning ( I know everyone on AAB says to put it in writing) but my impatience is getting to me....

Mortgage Operations now say that The Arrears Collection Unit have made an error and the increased payment per month is now going to handle this.

I need to get this properly investigated on paper and sent to us dont I?
Its a mess.
Our next payment is due on the 10th July for the increased amount.

I will look back over all these posts, draft a letter to both UB Mortgage Operations and UB Arrears Support Unit, include the advice and notes received on here and send off...and see what comes of it...

Its frustrating:(
 
So it appears that you are not the only one - see here
On the plus side though, this suggests that the underpayment is being clawed back in this year only os your payments will revert back to the original amount i.e. Jan to Jun come next January.
 
Still waiting !

Ulsterbank are still looking into this mess.

The arrears support unit back in December applied the extension to the mortgage correctly as we instructed them to.

So - UB have raised a query and we are waiting on the result. Last i spoke with the arrears support unit she said it was a technical error and they would keep me informed as to the progress.

We have not paid the 'increased amount' as per their letter only our usual monthly figure and will continue to do so until we hear otherwise
 
Unstacked;

I cannot overstress the necessity to only operate in writing. In that way you will have a verifiable time line and a verifiable paper trail.

To (speak) to them is to add on another layer.
For your own sanity , slow it down to a paper trail.
There is no way you will remember (i said, they said)!
Keep us posted please.
 
Financial Ombudsman

This is with the Financial Ombudsman now since mid September.
UB were hopeless in sorting this out so it was reported to the FO - all we want to do is get the mortgage right.
FO keep us in the loop by sending letters stating they are still looking into it etc
 
Thanks unstacked, let us know how you got on. I have had a similar Lanigan's Ball with Ulster Bank this year, too much TRS, I query, they insist it was correct, they send a letter telling me they were wrong and would have to charge me more for the rest of the year, I tell them it was their fault, they send me an apology and the FO details. They charge me too much. Then come a few reimbursements I never asked for, one of which came with a whole bonus 5c that they tell me I will need to inform Revenue of in case I have a tax liability as a result... fun year - can't wait to read the annual statement for this one!
 
Its going on now since July So-crates and we would just like it sorted. We will pay the correct monthy payment when we absolutely know its the correct amount...but not until we hear from Financial Ombudsman.
I have enough grief at moment with a BTL to be sold without the main home causing upset also...thing is we have no arrears on this mortgage and we struggle to keep it that way.
 
Result

Financial Ombudsman came back last week with an 8 page letter outlining the whole issue from start to finish.

Short version - UB made error in calculating the re-capitalisation and the increased payment is the correct one.

Apologies from UB and a payment of €1500 to go towards costs etc
 
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