Can you put up a scan of your letter (blacking out identifying details.)
Ulster bank has miscalculated the repayments on trackers for years. Now it's AIB's problem
- Thread starter Salvadore
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Again you don't know that. We haven't heard from AIB/Ulster Bank what the issue is apart from vague answer about wrong schedules when people ring up. We still don't know the number of impacted customers. That didn't stop them from adjusting peoples repayments though.
Not sure why people are struggling to see the problem here. Whatever about the reason for the error, this is a consumer website. Can anyone seriously defend how this has been handled by not only the two banks but also the central bank. It doesn't matter if customers are impacted by €10 a month or €600 a month. A major issue was identified and they seem to have gone out of their way to at best minimise it or at worst attempt to conceal the extent of the issue.
A €5 billion mortgage book was sold to AIB. AIB would have gone through every single loan in that transaction and this issue was missed. The idea then that people would have been able to spot it using online mortgage calculators either means that AIB were completely incompetent or the issue here is not as clear cut as incorrect schedules.
Brendan Burgess
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Everyone here has been critical of the way it has been handled. No one has defended it.
Gordon Gekko
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Just keep the repayments at the same level and extend the term.
Adjusting the payments is nonsense.
Adjusting the payments is nonsense.
Brendan Burgess
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There are three separate issues
1) The miscalculation
2) The discovery of the error
3) The way it was handled
The miscalculation should not lead to a refund or write-off as there was no overcharge
I have no idea when the error was discovered. I wouldn't be that surprised that the due diligence did not find the error. They probably assumed that the Ulster Bank system correctly calculated the repayment. On balance, if AIB had discovered the error, they would have insisted that Ulster write to the affected customers at the time and before the actual transfer.
The way it has been handled is a disgrace.
Brendan
1) The miscalculation
2) The discovery of the error
3) The way it was handled
The miscalculation should not lead to a refund or write-off as there was no overcharge
I have no idea when the error was discovered. I wouldn't be that surprised that the due diligence did not find the error. They probably assumed that the Ulster Bank system correctly calculated the repayment. On balance, if AIB had discovered the error, they would have insisted that Ulster write to the affected customers at the time and before the actual transfer.
The way it has been handled is a disgrace.
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
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On reflection, this should be the default.
But they should write to those affected, giving them the option to increase their repayments.
Brendan
My brother has/had an Ulster tracker, now transferred to AIB. When he first saw the repayments he realised that Ulster had used an incorrect rate, they fixed it. Now we have thousands of trackers miscalculated. Separately we have my loan getting 3 refunds for their miscalculations. Today we know AIB didn't carry out due diligence properly on the Ulster transfers, I've been advised to go to specialists to check if my loan was calculated correctly, etc etc . So no I don't believe it's possible to state that banks calculate things correctly.
Nothing changes does it. This is typical from Irish banks.
thedaddyman
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The article mentioned "some" ex Ulster Bank customers being affected so potentially it is not all. In addition, not all UB trackers have been transferred over, there is still a cohort that are looking at the latter part of the year before that transfer is made.
I'm someone whose mortgage is yet to transfer and am overpaying at the minute (deliberately) so my payments have not really increased due to the interest rate increases, what has happened is that the balance outstanding has reduced at a slower rate. When I look at the interest I am paying (in cash terms) , it has gone up roughly 3.5 times on where I was 18 months ago.
I'm someone whose mortgage is yet to transfer and am overpaying at the minute (deliberately) so my payments have not really increased due to the interest rate increases, what has happened is that the balance outstanding has reduced at a slower rate. When I look at the interest I am paying (in cash terms) , it has gone up roughly 3.5 times on where I was 18 months ago.
Without knowing the details of this particular issue, regardless of who is at fault, anyone borrowing sums of money in the hundreds of thousands should be able to calculate basics like interest rates, repayments etc and be able to keep track of these. People are well able to see how much their fuel costs for their car, how much on street parking is and yet most people are clueless of their mortgage, despite it being a huge chunk of household budget. There are ample tools for those not familiar with the calculations. Where this education piece should come from I am not sure, but it is vital. Similar with reading a payslip and being able to recalculate your tax.
But how can customers be assured that there even was a miscalculation or, if there was, that it has now been corrected properly. We’re being asked to trust a system and institutions that caused this problem in the first place.
I, for example, am being asked to pay an additional 110 a month. Why 110? Why not 200? Heck, let’s make it 400.
On what basis do they come with these figures?
Raging Bull
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Of Course people have a claim against UB with FPSO
Per Consumer Protection code
2.2 acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers;
2.3 does not recklessly, negligently or deliberately mislead a customer as to the real or perceived advantages or disadvantages of any product or service;
2.4 has and employs effectively the resources, policies and procedures, systems and control checks, including compliance checks, and staff training that are necessary for compliance with this Code;
Clearly they dropped the ball and secondly they didnt know AIB found it
Per Consumer Protection code
2.2 acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers;
2.3 does not recklessly, negligently or deliberately mislead a customer as to the real or perceived advantages or disadvantages of any product or service;
2.4 has and employs effectively the resources, policies and procedures, systems and control checks, including compliance checks, and staff training that are necessary for compliance with this Code;
Clearly they dropped the ball and secondly they didnt know AIB found it
have you checked the actual AIB calculation?
could it not be AIB messed up by using incorrect information?
has anybody actually compared the details from Ulster Bank to AIB.
I think its called experience.
Raging Bull
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Such letters would not be issued without the knowledge of CB therefore its an issue for UB.
But hey if I'm wrong go after AIB then for causing distress anxiety for issuing invalid letters !!
the letter issued was a standard repayment calculation letter that occurred due to a rate change, this would not be sent to the Central Bank to review.
It would only have been sent to the Central Bank if AIB believed there was an issue before the letters were sent out.
I wonder will this mess mean the transfer is delayed. AIB surely don't want more irate new customers.
Important Customer Notice
On the 13th of January, we received competition clearance from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) on the portfolio sale to AIB Group plc. Potentially in-scope Ulster Bank tracker mortgage customers’ legal and regulatory protections do not change as a result of this transaction. These customers will continue to retain their tracker mortgage in line with their mortgage documentation. Customers do not need to take any action on foot of this announcement; we will provide further updates in due course.
Now that Ulster Bank has received approval from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), is my mortgage definitely going to transfer to AIB?
While approval has been received from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), the agreement is still subject to other regulatory approvals.
We will write to you again a minimum of 2 months in advance of any transfer of your mortgage to provide you with formal confirmation of the inclusion of your mortgage. Please be assured that this announcement does not affect your legal and regulatory protections. We want to reassure you that you will continue to retain your tracker mortgage rate in line with your mortgage documentation.
How do I know if my mortgage is included in the Binding Agreement announced with AIB?
Ulster Bank has entered into a Binding Agreement with AIB for the sale of all performing tracker mortgages. Following this announcement, we wrote to customers whose mortgage is likely to be included in this Binding Agreement. The important thing is that no action is required by existing mortgage customers as a result of this announcement.
Completion is expected to occur in phases across 2023, with the majority of loans expected to transfer by mid-2023. While approval has been received from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), the agreement is still subject to other regulatory approvals.
We will write to you again a minimum of 2 months in advance of any transfer of your mortgage to provide you with formal confirmation of the inclusion of your mortgage. Please be assured that this announcement does not affect your legal and regulatory protections. We want to reassure you that you will continue to retain your tracker mortgage rate in line with your mortgage documentation.
I have a tracker with Ulster Bank which has yet to transfer.
I put the outstanding balance, term remaining and interest rate into a couple of online calculators and they come up with pretty close to my actual repayment so hopefully not affected.
The problem really is that people believe that their mortgage repayment is being calculated properly to pay off the mortgage in the term agreed so they then make decisions regarding where to spend the rest of their money. They think that the mortgage is costing them €1000 per month therefore they can afford to commit €200 per month to something else and still have the mortgage paid off within a timeframe. They will make decisions based on their belief as to future interest rates and other variables but they do not assume that the bank will not have calculated the repayments correctly.
This is why people should be compensated - they have made the wrong decisions because the bank gave them the wrong information.
I put the outstanding balance, term remaining and interest rate into a couple of online calculators and they come up with pretty close to my actual repayment so hopefully not affected.
The problem really is that people believe that their mortgage repayment is being calculated properly to pay off the mortgage in the term agreed so they then make decisions regarding where to spend the rest of their money. They think that the mortgage is costing them €1000 per month therefore they can afford to commit €200 per month to something else and still have the mortgage paid off within a timeframe. They will make decisions based on their belief as to future interest rates and other variables but they do not assume that the bank will not have calculated the repayments correctly.
This is why people should be compensated - they have made the wrong decisions because the bank gave them the wrong information.
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