Ukranian €800 Payment Scheme - Anyone Availing of It?

Leo said:

Details here. if there are other tenants you need their permission.

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This is why the whole subject of tenancies confuses me.

If a property has a tenancy agreement in place then how can the owner decide to let a vacant room to a Ukranian or anyone else for that matter? If the tenant/s are the parties with permission to occupy, does it not follow that they decide who occupies the vacant room and not the owner.

Once a tenancy is granted, the tenant or joint/multiple tenants are the individuals granted permission to occupy and if someone leaves the remaining tenants can continue without them, or the leaver can assign their interest but only with the owner's permission.

So any other occupant is actually a guest unless the owner agrees to update the parties to the lease. How could tenants take part in the Ukranian scheme without the owners permission?

I read recently on another forum that taking in any paying guest could be classed as commercial activity and a breach of the lease - is that right?

Ballymag said:

I now see that the rules have changed and owners in fair deal can now keep 100% of rental income and it is exempt from fair deal assessment. As my mother would now get approx 2100pm for her house,would this make more financial sense than 800 tax free? She has only a basic income of social welfare old age pension, most of which is taken by fair deal to pay nursing home. How much of the 2100e per month would she lose in tax?

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Rent may be exempt from fair deal assessment but would €25k rental income mean that the OAP income would also be taxed?

bipped said:

If a property has a tenancy agreement in place then how can the owner decide to let a vacant room to a Ukranian or anyone else for that matter? If the tenant/s are the parties with permission to occupy, does it not follow that they decide who occupies the vacant room and not the owner.

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I suspect it could only apply where there are multiple tenants occupying under license. Where a tenant has let an entire property, the landlord would not be permitted introduce new occupants.

bipped said:

I read recently on another forum that taking in any paying guest could be classed as commercial activity and a breach of the lease - is that right?

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No, regular tenancies are not classified as commercial operations, and there are 90 day per annum exemptions for properties in RPZs before the requirement to apply for planning permission for commercial short-term letting applies.

Leo said:

I suspect it could only apply where there are multiple tenants occupying under license. Where a tenant has let an entire property, the landlord would not be permitted introduce new occupants.


No, regular tenancies are not classified as commercial operations, and there are 90 day per annum exemptions for properties in RPZs before the requirement to apply for planning permission for commercial short-term letting applies.

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But if it's under licence then they are not actually tenants with rights from the rta - is that right?

I thought the STL regulations only applied to property owners. Just curious, but can a tenant in a rpz decide to do airbnb for the 90 days without the owner's permission? Would that be a breach if it is not allowed in the lease terms?

Is taking in any paying guest seen by revenue as a commercial activity and would an owner's property rental insurance allow for tenants to engage in a commercial activity in the dwelling?

The Red Cross were on the news this evening appealing for home hosts for the Ukranian accommodation system.

bipped said:

But if it's under licence then they are not actually tenants with rights from the rta - is that right?

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Correct, the RTB site does outline that it is permissible to let rooms individually that would remain outside their scope.

bipped said:

I thought the STL regulations only applied to property owners. Just curious, but can a tenant in a rpz decide to do airbnb for the 90 days without the owner's permission? Would that be a breach if it is not allowed in the lease terms?

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No, the legislation allows for owners and tenants. Indeed it even calls out that a tenant must obtain the property owners express permission if they wish to undertake short-term letting that would require planning permission under the terms of the act. So yes, tenants are permitted to do Air BnB, it has been discussed here previously that while a lease can require notification it may not be legal to prohibit a tenant from doing so. I'm not familiar with that aspect of the legislation.

bipped said:

Is taking in any paying guest seen by revenue as a commercial activity and would an owner's property rental insurance allow for tenants to engage in a commercial activity in the dwelling?

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I'm sure Revenue would consider all income as income. Most insurance policies contain specific terms and exclusions in the event of claims relating to rental activity.

Does this mean that a tenant can only use the dwelling as a residence ie. not use it for short term lets?

S.16 (m) not use the dwelling or cause it to be used for any purpose other than as a dwelling without the written consent of the landlord (which consent the landlord may, in his or her discretion, withhold),

If a tenant decided to do airbnb without the owners permission and if PP was required but not applied for/ received would this section apply?

S.16 (b) ensure that no act or omission by the tenant results in there not being complied with the obligations of the landlord, under any enactment, in relation to the dwelling or the tenancy (and in particular, the landlord’s obligations under regulations under section 18 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1992),

I wish Westmeath Coco would avail of it, offered a 2 bed apt a week ago and no reply. Apparently the staff managing this have left and haven't been replaced, I was advised to email the Housing dept in Westmeath CoCo who seem to be overwhelmed and couldn't manage an acknowledgement. They are on a par with Longford Cco housing who are as equally as overwhelmed.

Knuttell said:

I wish Westmeath Coco would avail of it, offered a 2 bed apt a week ago and no reply. Apparently the staff managing this have left and haven't been replaced, I was advised to email the Housing dept in Westmeath CoCo who seem to be overwhelmed and couldn't manage an acknowledgement. They are on a par with Longford Cco housing who are as equally as overwhelmed.

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You can also offer your property through the Irish Red Cross

Helping Irish Hosts have been excellent to deal with. Their process is roughly as follows:

1. You submit expression of interest to host
2. They ring you to ask about the property and who your ideal Ukranian guest would be
3. They find a Ukranian that matches and interview them to assess suitability
4. They set up a Whatapp group where you introduce yourself
5. Then if it all goes well for both parties, off you go.

They've a good facebook group for hosts to ask questions too.

Tenant is responsible for all household expenses , electricity, internet , waste removal etc, They receive social welfare allowances .

Wonder will this be tackled during remainder of the life of this Govt and what the possible outcome will be?