Trying to scramble a retirement together

SquirrelChaser said:
I'd suggest selling the Bitcoin, paying the CGT, taking out the €15k you put into it and then reinvesting the balance of €40k back into Bitcoin. That eliminates the possibility of losing anything on the deal, retains the option of benefiting from future increases in value, and gives you €15k to use elsewhere.
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Selling Bitcoin in order to buy back Bitcoin sounds insane, sorry. Why crystallise a Capital Gains Tax liability on a disposal you then immediately reverse?
 
T McGibney said:
Selling Bitcoin in order to buy back Bitcoin sounds insane, sorry. Why crystallise a Capital Gains Tax liability on a disposal you then immediately reverse?
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To extract your initial capital and make it an entirely risk free speculation. It's Bitcoin not a rental apartment or the stock market, so very different considerations should be applied to the decision making.
 
bish123 said:
Bit strange - OP starts post which outlined previous risk taking and being irresponsible and yet refused to follow advice given that leads to being responsible !
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Well i did say I wanted to hang on to my precious BTC in my post! I liked jimmij's response that gave me advice without talking about the Bitcoin, and there are definitely lots of valuable viewpoints given here worth considering. I realise it's a divisive issue, and it took me a few years of owning Bitcoin to fully appreciate the potential of it, which we are now seeing in the current value. It wouldnt be still around after 15 years if it was worthless.

To answer poster "Fortune"s question about why I got into it in the first place, I was convinced by an early Bitcoiner over the course of many commutes to work. This was in 2016/7. I had been dismissive of it up til then, having heard only negative stories about the dark web etc, but he made me realise that there’s not much point saving in fiat when your purchasing power is being debased all the time. If we’d put half the State Savings money in Bitcoin we’d be retired already That was for the kids education so obviously there was no way.

I only started buying it with the idea that I might have 1 coin to call my own in the future sometime. I won't get there now but I'm satisfied with the amount I hold and have my head back in the fiat world (somewhat) to concentrate on my retirement as it's coming down the track faster than I would like. Selling the bitcoin and triggering 33% CGT just isn't part of my plans right now.
 
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SquirrelChaser said:
I strongly recommend reading an economics textbook.

And also selling your Enron shares.
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Keynesian or Austrian?

Not sure what a badly run/ corrupt company has to do with a protocol, which is all Bitcoin is at the end of the day. There is no shady foundation trying to scam people. It’s only worth what the market decides it’s worth. I’ve bought it at all sorts of price points as I have conviction about it. I have no issue with volatility, it’s served me well in the long run.
 
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speedtomyside said:
After 7 years in the Bitcoin game I really don't think it's a Ponzi scheme.
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It’s not a Ponzi scheme.

I think it has demonstrable utility as a means of payment…….but only for illicit transactions.

Hence I don’t see governments ever getting more relaxed about it.

Having a large share of your wealth in BTC at your age and income/wealth level is deeply misguided.

Whatever you do, check back in on this thread closer to retirement. It will be interesting to see what you decide and how it pans out. I could well be wrong.
 
Op regarding your children - what ages are they ? Regarding your child who you believe will live with you during adulthood. This will mean a retirement income to cover their living needs I assume? And are you planning to make further provision for them ir some kind of trust or will you leave more family assets as their inheritance etc. Not to know the details but just some things to consider if you haven't already.
 
Dr Strangelove said:
It’s not a Ponzi scheme.

I think it has demonstrable utility as a means of payment…….but only for illicit transactions.

Hence I don’t see governments ever getting more relaxed about it.

Having a large share of your wealth in BTC at your age and income/wealth level is deeply misguided.

Whatever you do, check back in on this thread closer to retirement. It will be interesting to see what you decide and how it pans out. I could well be wrong.
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It's legal tender in El Salvador so it obviously CAN be used for everyday transactions. The 'illicit transactions' thing is an outdated red herring, there are far more private cryptos like Monero for that purpose. Bitcoin is easily traceable and things have changed since the early days regarding KYC, tax avoidance etc.

Being used as a currency is not really happening yet though and won't until the fiat value is more stable. That could be 20-50 years away but every day that goes by it is getting more interwined with traditional finance. The approval by the US government of the ETF's changed the game.

My attachment to Bitcoin is only misguided if you are coming from a purely fiat-based mindset, where the government can devalue your savings at the drop of a hat. I see no reason not to hold on for another 4 or 5 years minimum. I'll have lost 15 grand if it goes to zero during some black swan like WW3 or a quantum hack. I can live with that. I'll probably have more to be worrying about at that point.
 
speedtomyside said:
I didn’t suddenly wake up to find I had €71k in Bitcoin. If I had sold it when it was worth 20k, 40k, 60k and I put it into a 4% interest mortgage I’d be kicking myself right now. The mortgage is being taken care of by inflation, I don’t worry about it. We have steady income and the house is worth a lot more than we paid for it. It’s also protected by an insurance policy in case anything happens to one of us.

Also I don’t really want to pay the CGT yet. It would be around €17k. I’ll wait and see what happens. Why sell an appreciating asset? I might never cash it in and just leave it to the kids as if it were jewellery. It’s proven a good hedge against inflation and store of value so far, I don’t see it dropping to my cost price and if it does, it’ll most likely bounce back again.
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You came here looking for advice but you’re not listening.

You claim to have had some sort of ‘road to Damascus moment’ about being more focussed but you’re just arguing about the potential of your Bitcoin holding. While you have debt and almost no pension.

Bitcoin is a pump and dump Ponzi scheme feeding on people’s greed and idiocy. No wonder the criminal gangs and terrorists love it.

I thought I’d be reading a thread where someone genuinely wanted help. All I’ve read is HODL Bitcoin rubbish.
 
My home isn't under threat :D Bitcoin is a totally separate investment (mostly from years ago). We have around 111k left on a 168k mortgage, (€227k house, 25% downpayment) with the house now valued at at least 300k. Approx €800 per month payment which we've never had trouble paying. You're acting like I could lose my shirt over this :D

I came in good faith but I obviously poked the hornets nest here. A lot of insecurity around the issue of Bitcoin it seems, and nothing but debunked arguments from years ago. Things have moved on.

(I'm not even allowed to post links here, and can only post every two or three hours, this place is like something from 2002? :D but) Do you really think companies with the reputations of Blackrock, Fidelity, Invesco would let themselves be associated with a 'pUMp ANd dUmP PoNzi ScaM', buying Bitcoin worth hundreds of millions every day? Get real lads.

(Don't @ me with 'they're just taking the fees from greater fools, yadda yadda'. )
 
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speedtomyside said:
It's legal tender in El Salvador so it obviously CAN be used for everyday transactions. The 'illicit transactions' thing is an outdated red herring, there are far more private cryptos like Monero for that purpose. Bitcoin is easily traceable and things have changed since the early days regarding KYC, tax avoidance etc.

Being used as a currency is not really happening yet though and won't until the fiat value is more stable. That could be 20-50 years away but every day that goes by it is getting more interwined with traditional finance. The approval by the US government of the ETF's changed the game.

My attachment to Bitcoin is only misguided if you are coming from a purely fiat-based mindset, where the government can devalue your savings at the drop of a hat. I see no reason not to hold on for another 4 or 5 years minimum. I'll have lost 15 grand if it goes to zero during some black swan like WW3 or a quantum hack. I can live with that. I'll probably have more to be worrying about at that point.
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It doesn't matter if the investment is in Bitcoin, Shiba Inu, shares or the post office, the point is that you are carrying more debt than you need to in order to have that investment.
 
I’m not against BTC being part of a portfolio - I think the bubble allegation is possibly overdone and when compared to US treasuries, I’m not sure which is the bigger pump-and-dump at this stage!

That said OP, you just have very little else in your portfolio. Mortgage is quite manageable (I don’t buy the borrowing against your house to buy BTC thing, no more than my employer borrowed against capital assets to fund our Christmas party!) but I think it might be sensible to start taking some chips off the BTC table and put them into AVC’s. Your 70k could go to 700k but just as easily could go to 7k… despite your personal belief in it.

If nothing else, unwinding it bit by bit over the coming years as opportunities to pay into AVC’s arise might be a smart middle ground. If nothing else, it’s all taxable as CGT and you’ll want some income in the future to utilise tax bands/credits.
 
speedtomyside said:
My home isn't under threat :D Bitcoin is a totally separate investment (mostly from years ago). We have around 111k left on a 168k mortgage, (€227k house, 25% downpayment) with the house now valued at at least 300k. Approx €800 per month payment which we've never had trouble paying. You're acting like I could lose my shirt over this :D

I came in good faith but I obviously poked the hornets nest here. A lot of insecurity around the issue of Bitcoin it seems, and nothing but debunked arguments from years ago. Things have moved on.

(I'm not even allowed to post links here, and can only post every two or three hours, this place is like something from 2002? :D but) Do you really think companies with the reputations of Blackrock, Fidelity, Invesco would let themselves be associated with a 'pUMp ANd dUmP PoNzi ScaM', buying Bitcoin worth hundreds of millions every day? Get real lads.

(Don't @ me with 'they're just taking the fees from greater fools, yadda yadda'. )
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Posters have given you their views on bitcoin. You can take it or leave it without getting defensive.

I heard an interesting podcast on bitcoin it went on to say that in order for anything to gain acceptance it has to be trusted by the majority of people.

Bitcoin is not like cash/shares it is not a productive asset. The USA on one side Elon Musk wants to increase the use of bitcoin but it risks destroying the dollar and with it the dollar as the base currency of the whole world.

For what it's worth and based on your initial post I would reduce your holding of bitcoin and use it to reduce your mortgage, then redirect your saved mortgage payments into a pension.
 
speedtomyside said:
My home isn't under threat :D Bitcoin is a totally separate investment (mostly from years ago). We have around 111k left on a 168k mortgage, (€227k house, 25% downpayment) with the house now valued at at least 300k. Approx €800 per month payment which we've never had trouble paying. You're acting like I could lose my shirt over this :D
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No, I'm simply pointing out the fact that you're effectively borrowing to gamble on Bitcoin and to save elsewhere which doesn't make sense from a financial prudence and risk diversification point of view.
speedtomyside said:
(I'm not even allowed to post links here, and can only post every two or three hours, this place is like something from 2002? :D
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