trying to get out from under Vulture

Brendan Burgess said:
You currently owe them €540k on a property worth between €600k and €750k
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endofourtether said:
We can't get finance for that debt even though as a percentage of the value of our family home it would be just 60%
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So if your house is worth €700k, they are offering to settle the total debt for €420k.

That is a write off of €120k - not bad.

You have an income of €90,000 so you need 4.6 times your income.

I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting this.

So
1) Clear the arrears on your home loan immediately for the reasons I have already set out.
2) Let them lodge the judgement against your home - there isn't much you can do about it.

If I recall correctly, the interest on the judgement mortgage will be at a very low rate, so you don't really need to worry about it.

In theory they could seek an order for repossession, but it's very unlikely.

Brendan
 
Have you a family member who could lend you €100k?

I suspect that the fund would take the €100k in settlement of the €200k unsecured loan.

That would leave you with a mortgage of €340k.

After a few years, your credit record will repair, and you should be able to switch to another lender.

Brendan
 
endofourtether said:
Yes. I want to extract myself from this position to ensure that I am left in the best position financially.
I thought that this forum was where I would get advice. I don't need to be judged, I have done that myself for the last 10 years.

They are offering an amount to fully buy out our total debt with them - This includes PPR and residual debt.
We can't get finance for that debt even though as a percentage of the value of our family home it would be just 60% and our current incomes can support it.
They are not forcing us to refinance with another provider another provider would have far cheaper rates.
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Ok let's try this a different way. What 'deal' would you be happy with? Compared to what is currently on offer?

And I still don't understand what is actually physically being offered other than apparently when you sign the deal you will owe 60% of the value of your home, a value that we are not even given as you've stated 600K to 750K.

Lastly, you have a gripe that the problem with this deal as that despite a good LTV you won't be able to switch lenders. I think.

If you think you'd get a better deal, which I doubt, try poster Jim Stafford, he's excellent in this area but he'll cost you.
 
Bronte said:
Ok let's try this a different way. What 'deal' would you be happy with? Compared to what is currently on offer?

And I still don't understand what is actually physically being offered other than apparently when you sign the deal you will owe 60% of the value of your home, a value that we are not even given as you've stated 600K to 750K.

Lastly, you have a gripe that the problem with this deal as that despite a good LTV you won't be able to switch lenders. I think.

If you think you'd get a better deal, which I doubt, try poster Jim Stafford, he's excellent in this area but he'll cost you.
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I would like to be able to deal with both the residual loan and the Family home loan separately, I feel that I am being forced to do them together.
What is being offered is a substantial write down if we do all of the loans in one refinance. we can't get this financed.
I am wondering if there is any approach that we should try to take in order to get the VF do it in a piecemeal manner.
 
Bronte said:
And I still don't understand what is actually physically being offered other than apparently when you sign the deal you will owe 60% of the value of your home, a value that we are not even given as you've stated 600K to 750K.
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I think what the OP is saying is the fund will do a debt write off, but only if the balance is repaid (i.e. he needs to be able to refinance to get the deal).
Or at least that's what I think. There's too much to read through.
 
RedOnion said:
I think what the OP is saying is the fund will do a debt write off, but only if the balance is repaid (i.e. he needs to be able to refinance to get the deal).
Or at least that's what I think. There's too much to read through.
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Nail on the head - apologies, I don't want to give too much detail.
Is there a strategy that will get them to deal with these two separate loans, one secured one not, as two separate loans?
 
endofourtether said:
I would like to be able to deal with both the residual loan and the Family home loan separately, I feel that I am being forced to do them together.
What is being offered is a substantial write down if we do all of the loans in one refinance. we can't get this financed.
I am wondering if there is any approach that we should try to take in order to get the VF do it in a piecemeal manner.
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I will try again.

a) The VF will write down around 100K of debt if you agree to a refinance, in simple language a new mortgage with them that is the BTL debt minus write down plus current mortgage.

Is that correct?

b) And if you don't do that is this correct:

The VF will put a judgement mortgage of the entire BTL loan on your home.
 
RedOnion said:
I think what the OP is saying is the fund will do a debt write off, but only if the balance is repaid (i.e. he needs to be able to refinance to get the deal).
Or at least that's what I think. There's too much to read through.
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How can he refinance from anywhere else when he's credit rating is shot? I think he means refinance with the VF.
 
Bronte said:
How can he refinance from anywhere else when he's credit rating is shot? I think he means refinance with the VF.
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Sure he'd be mad not to if that was on offer.

endofourtether said:
apologies, I don't want to give too much detail.
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You have to give enough info, in a clearl manner, if you want help. I've got confused reading your posts.

endofourtether said:
I am wondering if there is any approach that we should try to take in order to get the VF do it in a piecemeal manner.
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At the moment VF hold all the cards (or at least your title deeds). Why would they give that up and hand you deeds without a charge, so they could at best hope for a judgement mortgage on the unsecured debt?
 
Unless you can get the money from someone you're simply banjaxed. In the same position would you gamble on someone similar? I wouldn't. Sorry but it's business.
 
Bronte said:
I will try again.

a) The VF will write down around 100K of debt if you agree to a refinance, in simple language a new mortgage with them that is the BTL debt minus write down plus current mortgage.

Is that correct?

b) And if you don't do that is this correct:
The VF will put a judgement mortgage of the entire BTL loan on your home.
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A) Correct.
B) Correct


Brendan Burgess said:
Have you a family member who could lend you €100k?

I suspect that the fund would take the €100k in settlement of the €200k unsecured loan.

That would leave you with a mortgage of €340k.

After a few years, your credit record will repair, and you should be able to switch to another lender.

Brendan
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No.
It would leave us with €100k owing to a family member and a €340k mortgage.

Bronte said:
How can he refinance from anywhere else when he's credit rating is shot? I think he means refinance with the VF.
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We want to be shot of the VF. Rate is 5%.
 
endofourtether said:
A) Correct.
B) Correct


No.
It would leave us with €100k owing to a family member and a €340k mortgage.


We want to be shot of the VF. Rate is 5%.
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Seems to me you will get a debt write down right now of 100K and you should grab it.
Do the refinance with the VF and get your credit rating sorted and you move to a different bank.
I do not believe a broker can get you a mortgage with your bad credit rating

Alternatively

Take a family loan, and the mortgage. And with such a magnificant LTV now as you've only 340K owing on 700K try and move banks. (Obviously you don't tell them you owe another 100K!). You then hopefully get a good interest rate, freeing up more money to pay down the family debt and the mortgage.

That's what I would do.
 
I know you don't want to tell us the full story, but this is getting ridiculous.

You are saying that Bronte is correct, although I am fairly sure that she has misunderstood you.

Bronte said:
a) The VF will write down around 100K of debt if you agree to a refinance, in simple language a new mortgage with them that is the BTL debt minus write down plus current mortgage.
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You said "correct".

Let's make this absolutely clear.

The Vulture Fund is saying
"If you refinance with us, we will write off €100k"

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

Presumably the Vulture Fund is saying:

"If you pay us €420k now by refinancing with another lender, we will write off the shortfall"

Or are they actually offering you the "Bronte Deal". Accept €100k of this on your home, and will write off €100k. If so, then grab it.

Brendan
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
You want:
  1. A debt-write off
  2. To stay in your PPR
  3. A lower interest rate

You can have any two of these, but not all three.
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It seems that we can't even get 2. We are staying in our PPR though.
Bronte said:
Seems to me you will get a debt write down right now of 100K and you should grab it.
Do the refinance with the VF and get your credit rating sorted and you move to a different bank.
I do not believe a broker can get you a mortgage with your bad credit rating

Alternatively

Take a family loan, and the mortgage. And with such a magnificant LTV now as you've only 340K owing on 700K try and move banks. (Obviously you don't tell them you owe another 100K!). You then hopefully get a good interest rate, freeing up more money to pay down the family debt and the mortgage.

That's what I would do.
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Are you saying that the VF might roll everything together as one loan and write off the residual debt owing on the BTL?
That would be most helpful.

I must say that I love our wealthy and generous families...
 
endofourtether said:
Are you saying that the VF might roll everything together as one loan and write off the residual debt owing on the BTL?
That would be most helpful.
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What would be helpful is if we could understand your posts. At least now we know the 'Bronte deal' is off the table. It's a bit like Brexit this thread.

When did a broker tell you they could get a refinance deal with another bank? Which bank and at what rate of interest?

We have also finally clarified with your sarcasim that you do not have a family member able to loan you anything.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I know you don't want to tell us the full story, but this is getting ridiculous.

You are saying that Bronte is correct, although I am fairly sure that she has misunderstood you.



You said "correct".

Let's make this absolutely clear.

The Vulture Fund is saying
"If you refinance with us, we will write off €100k"

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

Presumably the Vulture Fund is saying:

"If you pay us €420k now by refinancing with another lender, we will write off the shortfall"

Or are they actually offering you the "Bronte Deal". Accept €100k of this on your home, and will write off €100k. If so, then grab it.

Brendan
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Apologies. If we refinance through a third party they will do a write off.

Look, I have been clear, all of my information is there, I just read through my posts, this is ongoing so I am trying to be a little opaque.
Bronte said:
Good luck with that.

(By the way, if I were a bank dealing with him I'd be tearing my hair out trying to get rid of him. So far none of us has actually figured out what is going on)
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Is this meant to be funny, I'm obviously able to give the bank the full details.
 
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